I will tell you about my “Eureka Moment”. We visited a local garden centre, phone in pocket not being accessed. I got home and there was a message “Tell us what you think about your visit to [the garden centre]”. I thought WTF is going on here. That was the end of my "Google love affair. So users are being tracked 24 - 7 and I don’t think they know [or even care]. Good project idea but it is an uphill battle.
ps. I have never had a Facebook account.
6 Likes
Another anecdote. I helped run a little group of about 30 guys and set up a Telegram Group to keep them informed of upcoming events. I managed to get 2 [two!!] of them to sign up.
Another group with a similar demographic running WhatsApp has the majority of members involved.
Dunno how we can counteract that. 
You could start collecting arguments why organisations/companies decided to move away from certain products.
I am sure there are many stories to collect, ones such as the United Nations who recently decided to bar WhatsApp usage
2 Likes
In Europe there are the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) is place that frames some basic user rights in European Union on user data. It is just a basic regulation but it brings up pretty interesting debates. Such as the one on Win10 or Office 365. It is amazing to observe how complicated it is to get ‘state of the art’ Microsoft products compliant with GDPR and not sucking user data.
The Dutch Government found out a year and a half ago that the telemetriy data were sent to US servers and finally forced Microsoft to improve the software. In Germany there were vivid discussions on whether using Microsoft products in public services and public schools. With Covid-19 this discussion slowed down a bit.
In very brief: GDPR compliance seems possible now, but to make Microsoft’s software not sending telemetry data out in the world is rather complicated and not feasible with every version (that mans as well: from most versions there’s user data skimmed and shared with Microsoft servers).
Really interesting is that those debates are happening for instance in German or Dutch but very little in English. That’s why I will share German some sources (just a brief selection), if you are interested just ask DeepL for translation.
-
Die tickende DSGVO-Zeitbombe von Microsoft, https://www.golem.de/news/windows-10-die-tickende-dsgvo-zeitbombe-von-microsoft-1911-145067.html
-
Datenschutz & Office 365: DSGVO-konformer Einsatz im Unternehmen? https://www.datenschutzbeauftragter-info.de/datenschutz-office-365-dsgvo-konformer-einsatz-im-unternehmen/
-
DSGVO: Niederlande verbietet mobile Office-Apps von Microsoft, https://windowsarea.de/2019/07/dsgvo-niederlande-verbietet-mobile-office-apps-von-microsoft/
1 Like
I like to compare the online tracking with a physical tracking: imagine somebody following you all day long in the street, taking note of every gesture you make, every hesitation, every shop/house you enter… If he cannot see what you buy in this shop then he’ll try to pay the shopkeeper or your bank to find out…
And actually there are several persons representing several companies following you and sharing their notes.
7 Likes
Dear all,
Thank you very much for your contributions to my project!
I will be creating the site sometime in the next weeks. I am really grateful for the good thoughts shared by @Anonyme and @ralxx . Thank you again! You have my creative juices flowing!
4 Likes
As people say: “I need protection of my personal data, not because my actions are questionable, but because your judgement and intentions are.”
“I need privacy, not because my actions are questionable, but because your judgement and intentions are.”
4 Likes
Yes, thank you @DiegoM… But that page isn’t what i’m looking for. What i want is a page that argues why we should not want to use a device like this, and then prove that our devices are indeed like this, then show that there is a way out: by sacrificing comfort, we can achieve privacy.
2 Likes
We do not sacrifice comfort but the “gratis” part of the offer by paying real honest money for a services (/e/ echosystem) that we use.
Hello¡
You have already received awesome answers. But I think I can add some ideas. I try to work as a privacy consultant after 8 years studying about privacy where I came from Free Software philosophy world.
There are some main points on which all the business of those big tech of the data market are based.
Maybe I am not going to list them by order, but these are the most important ones, in my opinion of course. I am going to give you my list of main points and a books you can recommend to your “marketed” friends:
1º Data is a business and users of big platforms are the product those platforms sell to their real clients: other companies. In fact sometimes those other companies use the services of those big platforms to just change people minds or even the truth about something.
Recommended books:
(This one is very basic, not tech thing at all. Available in a few languages) http://www.jaronlanier.com/tenarguments.html
(This one is a marvelous essay telling the truth about Silicon Valley. Everyone can read it, but is not so simple and direct as the previous one. Chapter nine specially recommendable to women. Available only in English, up to now): https://www.luciegreene.com/
2º How do they make people to be hooked to Social Networks and other software so people is generating data as much as possible? Behavioral Adictions.
(Astonishing book about this matter explained in software and tech context. Without any doubt a cornerstone to understand the current digital situation. Available in a few languages): http://adamalterauthor.com/irresistible/
This TED video by Tristan Harris (other person you will be very interested in) is very teaching as well: https://www.ted.com/talks/tristan_harris_how_a_handful_of_tech_companies_control_billions_of_minds_every_day
3º How is everything working today about personal data?
(This one is a really really good starting point for profanes, but I think is only available in Spanish. It talks about the situation in Spain, but its really good): https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-datanomics/9788423430208/9021267
For the general public we have also the last publication of Edward Snowden, which could be as well of interest, but the three previous books are more important in my opinion (available in a few languages): https://www.casadellibro.com/libro-permanent-record/9781529035650/10041898
4º Consequences of the work model of Silicon Valley. This is another criteria to oppose to the use of the products of those companies we always talk about. But, you now, if people can not make a move for their own rights how are they going to do something for others… But, anyway it is another argument and I show it (I think it is available in a few languages): https://ghostwork.info/ghost-work/
From here we can continue but now the books need just a little bit of tech knowledge. Maybe not technically but of course the reader need to understand some very basic concepts, or at least this books are for people more willing to learn about this subject.
5º The way you treat data have consequences in the results. Almost every book talking about biases and “not fair” process of data comes to refer to this book. The most “ancient” of all my recommendations (2016). But what it says is still very present, unfortunately. (Available in a few languages): https://weaponsofmathdestructionbook.com/
This one is very good as well. The main barrier to the general public is simply that it has the incredible figure of 692 pages 
But without bibliography and references it is only 525 of real text to read, so Let’s do it¡ (available in a few languages, I think): https://www.abebooks.com/9781781256848/Age-Surveillance-Capitalism-Fight-Future-1781256845/plp By the way, this is a really nice second hand books (there are new ones as well) website in which you can find many book in very good conditions for a more affordable price.
Lastly, if you want to recommend just a novel (science fiction, more less now, but in a few years maybe we will have to change the gender to essay) I suggest this one (the is a film too, but it changed a lot of important things in the plot, much better the book): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Circle_(Eggers_novel)
Of course the list of books could be like a library but this is a good starting.
By the way, in some of this books (Silicon States, for example) is obvious the role of clinic information of people using some widely spread technology and its not future but present consequences for individuals.
If you want more info you can contact me through my website: https://www.pablomarinero.com/EN/index.html
6 Likes
Thank you very much @Pablo for this excellent compilation. I’ll use some of these ideas for sure in my project! I really appreciate your help.
There is something hugely comforting when you help others to understand the real world in which they live in order to allow them to choose to defend their rights. It took me sometime, yes. But two comments like those ones is an excellent prize. 
1 Like
Yes, I do! So I’ll contact you in a while.
Thank you!
I’ll probably ask you for help. Really, I’m not very free now, but I’ll probably have more free time in a little while!
Hi @Andy1¡
I forgot to thank you in the previous comment for mention those songs. I searched for the letters and I was very surprised. I guess that we think we (our generation more less, I mean) are living a huge social change. But, from all the references to analogue situations from the recent past I deduce that what is really changing is technology not the social division between a few powerful owners of resources and the rest of the humankind being exploited by them in different ways.
Thank for the reference to those geological things. I must admit that I had to look them up because I have never heard of them before. Very interesting things, by the way.
About last “no question”. As far as I know, you can choose one of the three following options to get privacy with communications:
1st. Use “common” technology adapted to privacy consideration. In this way the available “linux phones” could be an option. But they are not having great success by now. As common technology I really think that /e/ is the best option now.
2nd. Secure as much as possible your communications. Add security. VPN, firewalls, and so. From just adding a firewall to paranoid mode.
3rd. Use “different” networks to communicate. I mean those tools to use the TOR network, or even other networks different from the common Internet.
4rd. Some time ago I read a piece of news in which it was said that police had dismantled a criminal gang. The journalist pointed out the difficulty police had to find the leader of the gang because he used a special kind of phone with other selected members of the gang. He never used other type of phone. It was a phone not traceable, I think I remember that without a common SIM card we are used to. Not the phone we buy in a tech store. But those phones can be bought in some special stores. I have no idea of prices or more details. But this should be the most privacy respectful phone. However, I am not sure but I suppose you need the other people you are going to call having another equal type of phone, so…
/e/ phone, and all the security you can add. No doubt¡ 
P.S. A Trisquel (or similar) phone would be awesome¡
1 Like
Interesting discussion!
2 Likes
Again, everyone, thank you so much for the helpful discussions. I will update you all when I compile all these arguments in a good site!
1 Like
This topic was automatically closed after 15 days. New replies are no longer allowed.