Default Instant Messaging app in /e/OS: time to remove Telegram and Signal


#77

hmmmmm Tox does not seem to support automatic contacts adding based on your address book though, i wonder if that’s acceptable to an average user. It also doesn’t seem federated - imo federating is the future!


#78

Good find. Very interesting.


#79

Federation doesn’t matter if it’s truly distributed. There are no servers to compromise. This is the strength of both Tox & Jami. I agree that this model does create ease of use difficulties which might be unacceptable to the average user.


#80

As I have prordered a Librem 5 which will use matrix as default IM protocol, I have installed miniVector from F-Droid on my phone (and Riot on Debian) about 3 months ago to see how it works. Since then the handling of keys has improoved somewhat, but I still would not ask any member of my family to switch over from Threema. I feel Matrix is still too tricky to use.

What I personally do not like is to be forced to sign up on that vector.im identity server or any other. Threema does not require such a thing, why does Matrix? I want to decide myself if I want to be in the telephone book! At this point Matrix is lacking privacy awareness.

Matrix has the advantage over many other IMs to be independently usable on many OS apart from mobile devices. But this too is not yet fully developped. For Gnome there is Fractal recommendend as client app. But Fractal cannot handle E2E. So as a Gnome user one has to resort to Riot, which is an Electron app. And here creeps in Chromium, that is Google, and a quite uneasy feeling.

I think Matrix is very promising, but it is not there yet, especially so for mum and dad.


#81

So cross-signed device verification is almost ready - see https://twitter.com/matrixdotorg/status/1138938399161798658 and https://twitter.com/matrixdotorg/status/1139231218535415809 for how it works.

In terms of the identity server: they are optional - if you don’t want to be in the telephone book, don’t specify a server! :slight_smile: And even then, the phonebook is look-up only (i.e. mapping a known email address or phone number to a matrix ID).

Finally, Fractal can handle E2E using Pantalaimon (although the project is only a few weeks old).

Our aim is absolutely to get Riot & Matrix usable for the mums & dads of this world.


#82

There is a new app in development, simplematrix, which has stalled for the moment and is off F-droid temporarily (hopefully), but that aims to make Matrix on Android as accessible as Telegram or Signal, with a similar user interface.
see https://gitlab.com/Nordgedanken/simplematrix
and
Join #SimpleMatrix:matrix.ffslfl.net using https://matrix.to/#/#SimpleMatrix:matrix.ffslfl.net (Markdown parser doesn’t like Matrix.to links somehow)
i didn’t know the identity server on Matrix is optional, but that’s cool!


#83

Thank you @Matthew for pointing out the recent progress of Matrix. It is this ongoing development, that nourishes my hope, that it will be finally as easy to use as the those existing alternatives that have undesireable features one way or other.

As to that cross-signed device verification business, I think every user should be fully responsible for his devices himself. When I trust and verify a buddy, then it should be understood that this includes his devices without any further requirement for verifying at all. A need for double verification gives Matrix a disadvantage in usability.

Please let new registrants know during the process that an identity server is not compulsatory! And maybe you can the client comparison at https://matrix.org/docs/projects/clients-matrix get updated (features seem to be outdated and clients missing, e.g. Pattle).

Are there any news concerning bridges from the prevailing protocols? If Whatsapp or Telegram users securely could bridge into Matrix this would make Matrix a clear favorite as default in /e/ I think.

I wish you and your project all the best!


#84

I’d prefer to have no IM app preinstalled - also on iOS and Android most users install the IM app(s) their friends and family are using. Especially if it’s currently difficult to make default apps uninstallable I see no good reason to install an IM app that most of the people can’t use because their contacts are not willing to change.

I like the suggestion already made to do it similar to the browser selection on Windows. Just let the user install the IM apps he wants directly after installing /e/.

I personally use Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, Riot.im, Threema, and others, depending on what my contacts use.

Riot.im was a bit complicated from time to time when keys had to be requested again, more devices showed up in a chat than we actually possess. However, voice quality is really good.

I tried DeltaChat on iOS and there it’s still in beta and buggy. I’d recommend not to preinstall an IM on /e/ that is not ready on all main platforms.


#87

The Only english here ?
What is the purpose (the goal) of a universal system that wants to replace android ?
Admit multilanguage here and do not put people in boxes !


#88

Nobody puts you in a box. But you are free to consider yourself in a (mental) box.

English is not my native language, too, but I’m willing to communicate in it to be part of a much larger language box. I think this can be much more powerful than many separate language islands.

Welcome!

P:S.: There is a French part of the forum: https://community.e.foundation/c/e-en-francais


#89

How can we understand each other and build something if everybody speaks its language ? English looks like the logical choice.


#90

LOL

:joy:


#91

the Mandarin (chinese) will pass before English this year ! so logicaly …

je préfère m’exprimer en Français, qui est ma langue natale, pour prévenir les problèmes de raisonnement qui sont culturels. Quand on s’exprime dans un langage autre que sa langue maternelle on fait immanquablement des erreurs ! parfois même de fond.
(I prefer to speak French, my mother’s language, to avoid the problems of reasoning that are cultural. When we speak in another language, we inevitably make mistakes! sometimes even background.)


#92

That’s totally ok, we are very tolerant :slight_smile:


#93

All,
We are going off topic - Please lets return to the subject we need to discuss - default IM app - should we remove Telegram and Signal…
Use the language you are comfortable in - as long as others can get a reasonable translation and understand what is being said we should be ok…


#94

ok , i’m for TELEGRAM for IM and SILENCE for SMS . they are both sufficiently POPULAR to acquire new users for /e/ . Choice confidential applications will be riskly to have customers.
I had arguments , but my first message was ERASED by someone . This one seems to forget his own french.


#95

I don’t know why some people don’t like Signal, I think it’s really the best, and it’s recommanded by several websites for privacy: ThinkPrivacy, Privacy Tools.


#96

Of all of the ‘popular’ ones Signal is my first choice too. Among the problems with it are that it is only possible to register by giving a mobile phone number and it is based on a central server architecture. The latter is true of most other services however (Telegram, WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, etc.) Matrix is decentralised but the federated server model is as vulnerable to DDOS attacks as the centralised services (see Telegram in Hong Kong recently.) Theoretically at least, the future is distributed systems such as Jami and Tox. But they are currently too immature in terms of UX to have mass appeal.


#97

Matrix has a working bridge to Telegram
i’m gonna try the bridge to Signal this week
there is a Whatsapp bridge to, but it needs to be self-hosted


#98

How does abridge works_Maybe we need some tuto.