Netguard as a safety net around /e/

Thanks for taking the time to research and post this Henk! Perhaps we can turn this into a nice infographic, comparing /e/ with Google’s Android! We could also use apps like Exodus to monitor trackers of apps in the stock apps, etc. Happy to help!

Thank you, @Rik, for your support. Would be wonderful if you could monitor with Netguard your use of /e/ for a couple of days, and evaluate the state of un-googling of /e/ and the stock apps of /e/ for the use you make of it.

From there on we’ll see further for the future.

Thanks for your answer ! I’ll try the pro features then, and see what is happening :slight_smile:

I’ve tried NetMonitor, but as HenkK said earlier, it misses some information, and is not easy to use
Thanks for firejail, I did not know it, I’ll try !

Thank you very much @HenkK !
Thanks to you I installed the Netguard App + paid for the pro features.
I have now a good insight of what’s going on on my oneplus 5t with “normal” android on it. It’s really awful and freightening.

@HenkK I installed Netguard from F-Droid several weeks ago on my Google phone (what I saw pushed me to search for alternatives and I found /e/… :smiley:) and I was able to get the pro features with a donation for that as well, even though the developer says F-Droid builds were not supported.

Same experience for me. I really like Netguard. On /e/ the monitoring is totally different.

Your welcome, @Pat38 !

Are you ready for the /e/xperience? :wink:

It would be wonderful to have a bunch of people who more or less regularly monitor their personal usage of /e/ for the state of un-googling the /e/OS and pre-installed apps. No official statements about /e/, just sharing personal observations.

Thank you @MmeDelatour !

Could you expend a bit more on ‘On /e/ the monitoring is totally different’ ? TIA.

I mean all the connections to google servers are missing. :wink:
And apps generally don’t start connections unless I want them to, except for the ntp services (pool.ntp.org).

@MmeDelatour , thank you!

Are you familiar with pool.ntp.org ? For an explanation see https://www.ntppool.org/en/ . I believe you can stop this by choosing for setting and maintaining the system time manually.

In the PCAP export of Netguard I see this kind of communication:

2020-05-16 15:57:46 10.1.10.1 84.241.227.82 DNS 58 Standard query 0x832a A pool.ntp.org

. . . .
|2020-05-16 15:57:46|84.241.227.82|10.1.10.1|DNS|122|Standard query response 0x832a A pool.ntp.org A 188.226.159.244 A 80.100.130.235 A 162.159.200.1 A 51.15.44.1|
|2020-05-16 15:57:46|10.1.10.1|188.226.159.244|NTP|76|NTP Version 3, client|
|2020-05-16 15:57:46|188.226.159.244|10.1.10.1|NTP|76|NTP Version 3, server|

The DNS servers answers with four time server in the neighborhood? And the first one is used to check the time. At least, that is how I interpret this. I am not a network expert. Unfortunately the PCAP does not show the payload of these messages. As for the privacy aspect I would like to know more about what information, more than the ip address, if any is sent to the ntp server. As for more specifically the state of ungoogling, I believe a NTP server might be owned by Google, but in general this is not the case. You and I could also start an NTP server. See https://gist.github.com/mutin-sa/eea1c396b1e610a2da1e5550d94b0453 . pool.ntp.org is definitely not Google?

Searching a bit further: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol gives some history, and points to the most current version of the protocol (?) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5905 Not easy reading… A quick scan gives me the impression that there is no personal information sent to the NTP server.

Can maybe someone else jump in and say more definite how this works and/or whether there is a privacy issue?

Hi @HenkK !
I’ll do it as soon as I received my new phone (Pocophone F2 pro). The OnePlus 5T will serve as a test phone. I think it’s becoming urgent to go and protect ourselves with /e/ OS. The coronavirus crisis is a big rehearsal before our lives become completely tracked and monitored by big tech corporations AND governments. Managing fear is a powerful tool to drive the human herd.

Thank you, @Pat38!

I also feel the urgency to stand up for privacy now.

Please keep us posted!

@HenkK , see here for an example infographic. What do you think?

4 Likes

@Rik, I like your infographic very much! Thank you for creating this. The message is clear.

Just to be sure. In this thread we all speak on personal behalf. No official statements about /e/, about NetGuard, or about Google. For me goes: I am serious/honest about what I think and feel, but not an expert on Android, on network, on Google, or any other technique here.

Hey @Rik nice graphic - would you like to see my engravings - or infographic?
BUT:
Can see you have referenced your chosen sources - independent from e, for google listing. From which independent source did you populate the listing for e?
Oooops; :face_with_hand_over_mouth: enough said. :shushing_face:

Very misleading post if these Official Looking graphics were to influence Noobies or the less tech savvy, cheerleaders etc. :thinking:

@Rik, on a second thought. This thread is about using NetGuard to personally assess the state of un-googling of your own use of an /e/ smartphone. Your Infographic deserves attention on its own. Why not present it in a new thread, with your own explanation/motivation?

If you have inspiration for more, let it flow!

Because of the short, clear messaging content, the infographics have PR value, and could be re-used by /e/ if they want. See, for instance, https://doc.e.foundation/testimonies .

1 Like

Alright, thanks will post it when I’m behind my laptop again!

Hey @HenkK This is so good to hear – fantastic.

Please keep us posted on your progress with this urgent subject – I’m sure many of us will await your posts with great anticipation. Perhaps take a look at:-

https://community.e.foundation/c/e-foundation-community/data-privacy/23

to see how many privacy topics have been closed or shut down prematurely already. Good luck. :+1:

Hey @HenkK could I suggest a few basic steps to get your experiments raised to a more acceptable level?

  1. Conduct all tests on two phones of the same era, manufacturer and model number. One Android fully updated and the other on /e/OS updated as available.
  2. Use the same provider service and provider plan, network frequency 3G or 4G.
  3. Load both phones with the same popular apps – I see from our forum Whatsaap topic has had over six thousand hits.
  4. Ensure similar if not identical permissions have been granted or denied.
  5. Run your tests – (when you have found some software) – at the same time at the same event frequency.
  6. Do not make or include any assumptions whatsoever as this only leads to ridicule by then falsely skewing all your results.
  7. Do not support any unevaluated graphics or substance from any source as this distracts you from your chosen path. Be your own man and accept your own responsibilities.

This is just the basics and others may wish to add more to establish a very basic level playing field – particularly regarding popular apps – I would include the six most popular apps in the world today to make your experiments valid to a wide audience. Hope this helps you to progress?