There is not a great deal of recent information released on this issue in the media. But, it seems like (if this bill is passed) the government will be intending to monitor VPN usage and is expecting VPN service providers to carry out age verification checks on UK users.
I use Mullvad. The last time I paid for it, I paid for 6 months credit on Amazon. Mullvad say that they don’t store client data. So, how could our government monitor me as a Mullvad Customer in the UK? It is possible to pay for Mullvad with cash. Perhaps I should do this next time? Less easy to track. Or ask my niece in France to pay for it?
I am not sure how the this monitoring might be implemented?
Also, I am not sure how this new legislation might affect the Advanced Privacy on our phones. Would that be affected?
I use a VPN for privacy purposes and if I have to register my details with some UK spying system, it completely defeats the object. I use a VPN for amongst other things, online banking instead on banking apps, to get more privacy than I would have than if I used app based services.
Is it possible that all internet access where a vpn is detected (or similar, like Advanced Privacy) could be blocked so, that I would have no choice except to provide the information required, when these new procedures are activated?
I would very much like to know your thoughts on this.
As you probably guessed I am Canadian, but my Mom was born in Britain. Apparently I can then get my British citizenship as a result.
Not sure if want one or even to visit. What draconian laws they have over there, do they also have cameras in everyone’s bedrooms?
Sorry I can’t help answer your question but it does seem the GCHQ really just want to track all activities of all citizens over there.
Edit: I think they could force the local ISP to provide information at least from a PC level, and probably the cell phone companies. Do you use Signal Private Messenger, will they ban that next?
No they don’t have cameras in everyone’s bedrooms. I don’t think they’re stupid enough to try that one yet. Maybe in a generation or two when the stuff they’re trying to push now has been normalised. How the VPN age gate would be implemented is the same as now for adult sites under the Online Safety Act. Would it be for existing subscriptions? Who knows? Presumably an extant paying subscription has, in most cases, been created via a credit card. So maybe it will only apply to free VPNs. Dangerous government overreach in any case.
As I don’t access these sites, I don’t know how the system works currently. But, I assume that these sites are compelled by law to ask for ID before enabling access. If the same were to be done with vpns, that would mean that my VPN provider would have to do the same thing, compel me to provide ID before enabling me to use the service. I use my VPN for pretty much all internet access so, in effect, I would need to provide ID for all websites that I currently use, bank websites, utility websites - it would in effect prohibit me from using the internet at all without providing proof of identity first. I cannot see this step as anything but, draconian. It is clearly a way of monitoring everyone’s internet activity and withdrawing the right to any degree of privacy from anyone who is a UK resident.
Some paid for VPN service providers will be unwilling to comply and may simply withdraw their services from UK residents so that they don’t need to jeopardise their reputations by providing a service that purports to provide privacy to their customers but, is no longer able to do so.
I agree that the free VPN services may be happy to go along with this new law because their business model is based on selling the data that they gather. But, that is likely to just drive the free VPN users to paid for services. And then the government will target those, even if they did not previously do so.
I do use Signal and they have already threatened to pull their service out of the UK, if this goes ahead. Due to costs, some people in the UK are cancelling their broadband services in favour of 4G routers. If 4G data providers are forced to demand ID, that will affect all of these people as well as anyone with a smartphone, regardless of whether they use a VPN or not - so, I don’t quite see how they could justify it in terms of this new legislation.
You haven’t so far, but it could happen at any time if you access a site from a UK IP address. Things as diverse as news sites, cider subreddits and Spotify have already been caught in this. If it happens on any site you visit then you will see a screen inviting you to verify your age. Methods offered vary from one site to another but generally involve going to a third party site to upload either a photograph or government issued ID. If this is implemented for a VPN then I imagine you’ll see something similar each time you log in to it. The VPN provider might also be compelled to keep a log of which sites you visit. The benefit of a VPN would not be entirely erased as visited sites would still not know who you were and your ISP would still not know where you visited. But clearly you would lose the ability to keep government out of your business and be at greater risk of identity theft.
A degoogled Android phone and Nextcloud environment? Sounds a lot like /e/.
I self-host so no more interested than I am in the /e/ online offering.
Edit: It seems there’s a bit more to it if you buy their expensive box, but not enough technical details given. Also, anything that involves reward tokens smells a bit scammy. The idea of a mesh network sounds like it would kill the connections of those of us still on ADSL/VDSL if it ever became popular. Not good for anyone on a metered connection either.
@Vaughan the camera in bedroom was sarcasm on my part, couldn’t help myself. I got annoyed reading OP the rubbish the government is trying or will most likely pull.
There is a global concerted effort for this tyranny - we have to stand up, or we’ll all be in their digital prison. Can you use a prepaid card to pay for Mullvad?
You can anonymously mail Mullvad cash with an account number to associate it with I believe, though I have not personally tried it.
Would be cool to be able use GNU Taler instead one day to skip the risks associated with physically mailing cash.
This global age verification thing being used as an excuse to associate every move with an identity and locking devices down so big tech can enforce it is a real danger to democracy. Once a central authority can act as an access gateway, this opens the door to control and censorship.
And nothing is more idiotic than a system that requires uploading pictures of everyone’s IDs left and right. Once uploading ID pictures gets normalised, phishing for ID scans will be easy because people assume that’s just what you do every time you visit some new website. What could possibly go wrong …
Past 5 years I’ve been in preparation through anticipation that one day I’d have a grim foreboding about the direction of western countries since 2001 and realise I simply don’t belong in my own home country country anymore. It doesn’t even represent my values or interest and repeatedly condescends the public like we’re all born yesterday and don’t know what’s been really going on. I’m sick of living in the UK but I don’t know any country that is taking human rights seriously then days.
I feel ya man - I live in the states and I’m seeing the same crap here. California passed a law requiring age verification at the system level. That could affect Murena, they may need to put out a statement like MidnightBSD stating they will not sell or distribute their OS to California residents.
This could have a detrimental effect on the ability to install custom ROMs in the UK if it goes through, because the only way to enforce this would be to prevent users from installing or modifying the operating system:
Unfortunately, if you let people vote directly on issues, you’ll get things like Brexit and the re-introduction of death penalty. That’s why a representative democracy is considered the best model.
The way to do this is to write to the politicians and, if necessary, to make it abundantly clear to them that if they vote in favour of these surveillance laws they will not be voted for again.
No, you are still in control. Imagine if some politician made a “law” that prohibits you to breathe because it’s not legal. What would you do? Petition to them and write letters? Absurd!
Those are not laws, those are regulations. If you don’t agree to them, they cannot do anything about it. They want you to believe that whatever they say it has to be accepted, because they were elected. No, we are majority, and we decide if laws are bad, so we cancel them.
Look at it this way: If politicians make a law that demands AI video surveillance of all public spaces, you cannot simply boycot that law. If they separate your country’s internet from the rest of the world and deploy starlink jammers to be able to control what people can access, you cannot boycot that law. If they block access to IPs of foreign VPN providers without age verification in an internet provider firewall, you cannot boycot that law. And if they require you to have a certain app on your phone to be able to meaningfully participate in society, you cannot boycot that law. And even for those laws you can boycot, at some point the repercussions will get worse and worse.
There are many countries where this is a reality today. Where you can be arrested for using a “niche messenger”. Some Chinese manufacturers boasted to have ramadan fasting detection in their cameras. And it’s starting in free societies as well. AI surveillance cameras recently deployed in Berlin have an security alert for people “walking around without clear aim” (source).
The only way to prevent this type of thing is to prevent the relevant laws from being passed. Free and democratic societies are more fragile than many of us assume.
