Oh, I should let you know, the upgrading had nothing to do with me. That was the reason they were hounding me in the first placeđ
I wish I had not read this interview which helps us further understand the new project of the HIROH phone with e/OS/.
So basically Mr. Cocchia was an American solider then became an American mercenary of some sort or private military contractor as they are called these days. Of course I could be incorrect about that from my reading between the following lines. âI was a young guy in the military . . . From there, my career shifted toward international affairs, where Iâve had the privilege of working with Presidents, Ambassadors, the intelligence community.â
Further internet searches of Mr. Cocchia shows he was the executive director and founder of Liberty & Freedom Foundation around 2010 to 2012 or so. It looks to me that was one of those off the books campaign funding schemes for a presidential nominee candidate. In this case for Sarah Palin.
Mr. Cocchia in 2013 co-founded Vysk and served as CEO. The Vysk website is a bit odd to my eye. There is no business address or company number on the website, that I could find. The CTO is named as Jane Doe (the name given to unidentified female corpses in the USA) and her picture on the site is like an Instagram model picture, looking back over her shoulder in a sultry manner. She could very well be legitimate but it doesnât look right to me.
On the Vysk privacy policy you can contact them at an email address for a Washington DC restaurant, âmarvindcrestaurant@gmail.com.â Was the privacy policy just a cut and paste from somewhere else?
There is an article published on 12th August 2016 by âexpressnews comâ it reports that a lawsuit filed by an investor in Fysk on 28th July 2016 in the U.S. District Court in San Antonio, Texas. Within the lawsuit it states that âRather than a juggernaut poised for success, Vysk is a sinking ship with a rogue chief executive officer at its helm who has burned through nearly $15 million in innocent investor funds by making poor and reckless business decision.â
To be honest I am emotional invested in Murena and its success. I have been using the operating systems for a number of years but this worries me. Mr. Cocchia answers in the interview concern me. His interview is a full on word salad with pure marketing speak but low on details, low on hard facts we can look up. Like this quote âThatâs why, 13 years ago, I started a company that built one of the first truly secure communication tools.â Whatâs the tool so we can look it up? Was it successful? Did it work? No product mentioned but how much of the interview was spent on telling us the origin of the name HIROH, pure fluff.
I wanted to buy this phone but I was unsure about spending a thousand euros with an unknown phone manufacturer. I was left most unsatisfied after reading the clarifiying interview with Mr. Cocchia. I have my concerns, rightly or wrongly I felt obligated to share the information I found. Of course I suggest you do your own research and draw your own conclusions. I trust Murena to make sure this premium priced phone will get delivered in Quarter 1 2026. However, I will not be placing my money in the hands of any enterprise fronted by Mr. Cocchia.
10 Likes
yup you summarizes it pretty well. thank you for that! had almost similar observations:
apart from the vague interview answers, the looking up the previous work didnât yield anything prominent either.
- the contact email just vyskteam@gmail.com, pretty odd to use gmail. (the other email is straight up of a restaurant so thereâs that.)
- strange to use a dummy picture for a CTO (could be place holder), but a name that generic and no link to credentials donât help with anything.
- the websiteâs html code has many google trackers in it. (not the red-est flag but still)
again, not saying that it is not trustable, just that the info provided, leaves some questions unanswered.
Iâd trust murena with all my devices, but wonât buy the new one based on the current info so far.
2 Likes
Yeah, odd you canât find anything about Avarana Technologies, LLC. 1309 Coffeen Avenue Suite 1200, Sheridan, WY 82801. Itâs all a little strange.
1 Like
Yeah. I definitely understand your concerns, but Iâm not as worried about his background since I already live in the US and honestly a phone created by someone who potentially has ties to the government is still a better deal than a phone made by Google, because at least that means only my own government can spy on me, rather than a multinational corporation thatâs deeply involved in the advertising industry.
Plus, it does mean that at least the person in question is likely familiar with US carriers and likely will be under all sorts of obligations related to the FCC and such if they sell the phone to someone living here. I may even have the option of taking them to a local court if it turns out they lied or misrepresented the product, weâll just have to see. Iâm desperate enough for something that isnât either a Pixel or a non-US phone for the international market to take a chance on something that may well look a bit shady.
Anyway, my research turned up that the product in question was actually a product called the Vysk QS1 phone case, which had a built-in microprocessor separate from the phone itself used as some kind of secure enclave and physically blocked microphones and shuttered cameras. Itâs not a very well-known product because it was primarily marketed to enterprises and governments rather than ordinary people, if I understood correctly. Which may not be a bad thing, simply because stuff designed for government and enterprise tends to respect privacy a bit more than stuff sold to normal consumers. Thatâs just my take on it, though.
Plus, since the payment portal is through Murena itself, that means they are kind of potentially putting their own name/brand on the line in case it isnât delivered, so that also kind of helps a little. I donât know if HIROH will exist in a few years or not, but as long as the phones are made and delivered to those who preordered, Iâm hoping Iâll still get /e/OS updates through Murena and/or the community even if this new company doesnât last 5 years to provide any kind of support.
1 Like
Yeah, just look at all the people disappointed with Murena 1 and Murena 2 on the forum. Just like the Cloud problem, which has been going on for a year now and still hasnât been fully resolved. So, in my opinion, that doesnât mean anything.
That⊠is actually more worrying than any issues with HIROH or the people behind it, honestly. Birds of a feather flock together, is all I am going to say.
Since this will be my first /e/OS phone, that now means Iâm going to count this as the one shot for both companies. If this doesnât go well, Iâll just wash my hands of /e/OS as well as HIROH and count this as a very expensive lesson.
Sigh⊠I just hate whatâs popular and practical so much that I always feel forced into desperately investing in long-shots that claim to offer something too good to be true. Story of my life, oh well.
1 Like
Indeed, this launch has been fumbled. WHO is behind Hiroh? Iâve been waiting on an e\OS phone and thought this might finally be it. But without any insights into this company, Iâm afraid Iâll have to pass. Specs seem to be decent, but trust is imperative in this business.
3 Likes
I disagree, Mr. âKubernetesâ. So far, the launch is going greatâweâve had incredible feedback from people around the world who are excited about a privacy-focused phone with hardware thatâs actually great for everyday use.
To answer some of the questions floating around: Yes, weâre a startup, but I have 20+ years of product experience and have worked with Victor on privacy tech for over 12 years. Between us, we hold 15â20 patents related to hardware-based privacy. Weâve been building Hiroh together for the past two years and have a 5-year roadmap that Iâm genuinely excited about.
People have asked, âWho are these guys?â Fair question. Victor and I were part of the team behind Vysk, where we spent ~8 years developing 8 privacy productsâfrom the B2B/B2G-oriented QS1 to the first iPhone case with built-in camera shutters, sold in Best Buy stores nationwide in the USA. At our peak, Vysk had 70+ employees and won multiple awards (IAPP Innovation Award, CES Innovation Awards, CNBC Most Inventive Product, etc.). We didnât just talk privacyâ we built it.
Vysk shut down in 2020, and unfortunately someone bought the domain and put up a fake site that weâre now trying to get legally taken down. We are in no way affiliated with that website.
@Athenian200, your comment about Victor being an âAmerican mercenaryâ made me laugh. He joined the Army for college aid, which took him to Columbia University. From there, heâs run companies in video compression, aerospace, climate services, and is now working on environmental and health projects in Liberia. While we come from different backgrounds (and donât agree on everything), weâre fully aligned when it comes to our dedication to digital privacy and building useful technology.
Weâre happy to answer any questions and excited to share what weâre building: a premium phone and high-end experience for people who care about privacy and security.
7 Likes
For anyone wanting to read more about the Vysk QS1 case, the training and tech support manual for it is on manualslib.
Double post but @hiroh-alex: still hitting for an answerâŠ
I use my phones with skins (or wraps or skin-wraps). In 3D (like honeycomb) for better grip without getting bulky. I really would like to know if this options comes available besides phonecovers. Believe it or not, that would be a deal breaker for me. Of course Iâm happy to help.
Your comment about Victor being an âAmerican mercenaryâ made me laugh. He joined the Army for college aid, which took him to Columbia University.
Just to clarify, that comment was made by Gioni, not me, and I happened to reply to it.
Iâve just been waiting to find out how well the phone works on the AT&T 5G network in the US, since âworldwideâ sometimes means âoutside the US,â especially with dual-SIM phones. But thatâs based on prior experience with mainstream devices, Iâve never bought anything quite like this before from a smaller company, so I have no idea what to expect.
I have a few comments and questions after reading the interview on the Murena blog (some are from my previous post, which I have since deleted to avoid repetition).
âThere is no sacrifice concerning quality, concerning design, and concerning mateirals [sic]⊠because that is what people want.â
That is exactly NOT what I want. I came to Murena because I value sustainability, re-usability and repairability, not âI want cool.â As it says in another Murena blog post, âItâs a conscious choice for a better planet.â Are the premium materials Hiroh is using coming from environmentally sustainable sources? Platinum mining, for example, has significant environmental impacts. How are these impacts justified for this product? Also, where will these devices be made? Does Hiroh have its own factory and how will it ensure as many workers as possible along the supply chain get a living wage? Will the device be user-repairable for years to come? These are things that I value and the statement I want my phone to make is that some things matter more than appearances.
âAvarana is the parent company, and HIROH is the product, but somewhere along the way, the two became synonymousâ
A little bit I could find about Avarana. The address given for Avarana Technologies on Hirohâs website, as noted by a poster above, is 1309 Coffeen Avenue, Sheridan, Wyoming, not Texas. This is confirmed as its principal office address on filings made by Andrew Pierce of Wyoming Attorney LLC. In other words, this address is a virtual office for Avarana Technologies. The companyâs Articles of Organization were initially filed on May 21, 2024, so it has been in existence for about 18 months. (Wyoming Attorney LLC, btw, despite itâs name, âis not a law firm and does not give legal adviceâ.)
According to the WY Secretary of Stateâs Business Center, Avarana Technologiesâ Registered Agent in Sheridan is Cloud Peak Law, which is a law firm linked with Wyoming Attorney LLC. Under Wyomingâs business laws, Cloud Peak Law has reportedly become the registered agent for 1000s of LLCs. These have included companies linked with Donald Trump and, unfortunately, Maison de Luxe, an online auction company that allegedly scammed its customers. Because Maison de Luxe operated online from a virtual office, it was near impossible for its upset customers to seek legal remedies for any money they lost, according to an article on the Powell Tribuneâs website.
(As an aside, Reuters has a story online about cybercriminals using LLCs registered in WY as shell companies, including RouterHostingLLC, which it said was also set up with the help of Cloud Peak Law. Cloud Peak Law has not been implicated in any alleged crimes, it should be noted.)
Cloud Peak Law also offers anonymity to people registering LLCs; hence, Andrew Pierce is often named as âorganizerâ of these companies. Would the principals at Hiroh be willing to name whom he is organizing it on behalf of as this would help with transparency, especially as Hiroh is presumably controlled by whoever controls Avarana? In the interview it says that Victor is the CEO of Avarana and then he says he is CEO of Hiroh. Is he CEO of both and, if so, why is he not named as Organizer in the LLC filing? Also, who else works for Avarana and what does it make?
Could Hiroh also explain why they picked Wyoming to register a Texas-based company and whether they have a physical office somewhere, not just a virtual one?
Finally, some more general questions:
Why does Hiroh think it can do long-term what Andy Rubin couldnât with the Essential Phone, in a market where people appear willing to sacrifice privacy for targeted ads and TikTok, and at a time when custom-ROM development has got more difficult?
Will the Android 16 version use Googleâs version of the OS, like the Fairphone, or something else de-Googled, like LineageOS?
5 Likes
Here an article from Android Authority : Meet HIROH Phone: A $999 de-Googled device with a physical killswitch
TrĂšs intĂ©ressant âŠMerci pour ces recherches.
Bien vu ,câest tentant ,mais il faut raison garder .Tout ceci nâest pas clair .
I have also made a pre-order for this device, as I do want a premium device with e/os. I will say that it will be the most expensive phone I ever bought, so I hope that the experience is worth it. I have decided to never go back to stock Android if I can avoid it and back alternative degoogled options. The main selling point was the mic kill switch. I would not necessarily want the radios to be affected, as I want to be able to receive calls and turn on the mic when answering calls. How this kill switch function is implemented and the reasoning for those design choices will be the deciding factor for whether I will finally buy the device. I would like more information about this.
I Will the Android security model stay intact and will the device come with locked bootloader?
Those are also important.
Sustainability is important, but not the primary driver for me. We should strive to do better when possible.
A lot of digging has been done into the Hiroh company, which is fine and I understand the cautious approach to new companies.
3 Likes
Je comprends , mais lâapproche prudente ,discrĂšte ,quand on veut vendre ,ce nâest pas lâidĂ©al . pas trĂšs vendeur .Les concepteurs de HIROH sont amĂ©ricains , ,proches de Trump ,tout cela devrait interroger .
Entreprise amĂ©ricaine ,qui a soutenu Trump.Je comprends que la discrĂ©tion soit de mise .Pour ma part , vu le manque dâempressement Ă apporter des Ă©claircissements ,je crois bien que je vais me tourner (je nâaurais jamais voulu le faire ,jâai honte ) vers la firme Ă la pomme .
3 Likes
Why are we using different languages?
2 Likes
I guess users have different tolerance levels towards it, but it seems not to be forbidden here or anything to deviate from the opening postâs language. (At least itâs not in the forum FAQ.)
Personally Iâm with you, but I just assume Iâm not the target group in such cases. and there would be translation tools nowadays if I chose to care, so why not let people express themselves how they feel comfortable to do within the bounds of the FAQ.
6 Likes