Roadmap for 2025

I don’t think it’s a huge concern. If I want to use the “find my phone” service I would simply leave fake location off. In general I’m not that concerned about the location service. I never turn on fake location. If nothing is leaking that data which /e/os should not be, then it’s not a worry.

Google’s Find my Device service does have some bells and whistles, but some would only be used if a phone was stolen. It’s able to track other non-phone devices like watches, but I’ve never used that and I think most wouldn’t either. If an e.foundation web site can provide a ring function and a map location my expectations would be satisfied.

What surprises me is that the roadmap includes a lot of nice new features but does not mention any work on the current upgrade problems that are unacceptable for a mainstream telephone.
The current absence of OTA upgrade on most official devices is inconsistent with the user friendly vision.
Being user-friendly is probably a very good orientation and explains the /e/ OS - Murena success, though we are still facing major upgrade problems with nearly all devices except maybe the Fairphone 4 when it transitionned from Android 13 to Android 14. We know well that it is a very big job to develop those OTA upgrades and test them thoroughly to make sure that the mainstream user do not end up needing support to unlock their phone with command lines.

Today, even very happy customers who bought Murena phones on the online shop (Murena One, Murena 2 Terracube 2, Terracube 2s, Murena CMF, Fairphone 5, and now another new model) will end up getting stuck in their current Android version. This is a critical issue, so why not put most efforts today into developing those OTA upgrade on a few phones instead of new features (however important they are, like cloud for business) ?

By reducing the number of supported device, the customer will have better tested software-versions and more frequent updates. This is of much more value than maintaining a huge list of compatible devices.
I do not get the current erratic strategy of constantly offering new phone models in the official shop if they are (until today) removed only after a few months. This forces murena to “maintain” so many obsolete device and will end up being a legal issue for Murena as many customer will start complaints and lawsuits against them because they made obsolete several products after only a few months ftom their sale release. I really think that murena is taking unnecessary risks by spreading its efforts on to many phone models just to offer a low-end model in their shop.

Why not focus only on Fairphones 3-4-5 today to provide a quality product and only later in the future, once Murena has more employees, expand the product range to entry level models ?

Murena can still offer dev/unofficial builds for any other phone, but not sell them on the official shop as if they were well-tested consumer goods according the industry standards (which are very high).

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This is exactly the point that makes me very dissatisfied and makes me doubt! I wouldn’t buy another Murena appliance at the moment. For me, the roadmap is full of good intentions, but in detail the final touches to /e/OS are missing to stand a chance against professionally produced smartphones.

Have earlier Roadmaps been any different?

I admit that previous ambitions from Murena roadmaps have brought us the very good “advanced privacy” and App lounge.

But now that the user base is expending and that the quality expectations are growing accordingly, I would think that the priority is improving the quality on a few devices by improving the testing, updates and OTA upgrades (ideally less than a year after a new android version release) instead of going now to the professional market of cloud for business.

It seems that murena is still a very small entity and has unrealistic ambitions in the short-term in regards of their limited resources. We can tell from the general absence of communication: people at murena are too busy working on important stuff to afford loosing time on anything else.

I think that Murena is absolutely right in targeting a general audience and making their product user friendly, but then that implies giving up on the support of a multitude of devices and focus on one current device and past official devices (still trying to limit their number).

If Murena needs money now to hire more people, then it would wiser to sell in big volume one single well-tested device than going for the professional market with a half cooked product.
Expectations from professionals are much higher than from the general public, the volume of sales is much smaller and the product complexity much higher.

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Well, herein lies the question I’m raising - you may be perfectly happy about leaving your location data running and available to any app that asks for it, but there’s at least a plurality of /e/OS users who don’t, otherwise the fake location functionality wouldn’t be part of the core functionality.

The concern I’m trying to raise here hinges on how Find My Phone will work, in practice. On an iPhone, it’s enabled by default whenever a phone is connected to iCloud. It allows Apple to enable Location Services even if the user disabled it. Now, this is perfectly understandable behavior, because the inherent nature of finding one’s phone means that one can’t change settings to allow ‘real location usage’ after the phone is lost, without a server saying so.

If you trust Google’s pinky-promise, no-repercussions-if-they-break-it ‘commitment’ to limit their ability to override user privacy settings to user requests or send a server-initiated command to a phone to lock the holder out of its contents or erase it…then, respectfully, might I ask why /e/OS is a better choice than the stock ROM of your phone, or one of the other ROMs that have Google Play Services integrated into it?

I’m not trying to dissuade you from running /e/OS for any reason you deem worthwhile, but I submit that it is /e/OS has built itself on a foundation that can be summed up by saying “you don’t have to take our word for it”. They deliver the source code for their ROMs, and allow users like me to host our own server, so we never have to run a line of code, client-side or server-side, that we can’t inspect. That is what makes /e/OS compelling for at least a plurality, if not the majority, of /e/OS users, and Find My Phone functionality is inherently a request for trust.

I’m not saying that a Find My Phone function shouldn’t be pursued or implemented…but what I am saying is that it’s a bit more complicated for /e/OS to implement it than Google. Google’s mantra is “you pay us in data”, and most people don’t care. /e/OS is intended for a crowd that does care, which means that the implementation needs to more closely look like, “we’re offering the possibility if you want it, but ‘no means no’, so if you don’t want it, it won’t work, and we mean it, so while you can retain your privacy at all costs, understand that those costs may well be ‘losing your phone because you can’t enable Find My Phone after you lose it’.” I’m perfectly fine with that answer, and by all means, I will be thrilled, sincerely and honestly, that Murena can give you the functionality you’d like to have.

The crux of my concern, however, is that the roadmap seemed a bit vague on the implementation, and it’s the sort of thing that has the propensity to be VERY concerning depending on the details of that implementation. To a slightly-lesser extent, my concerns about the roadmap reflect on the fact that my loyalty to /e/OS largely hinges on the self-hosted server solution they provide. I hate, hate, hate bringing it up so much, but there haven’t been any commits (let alone releases) on the Gitlab page for it…and while I would be jumping for joy if the MDM and Find My Phone functions were implemented in the self-hosted server release, but if I were a gambling man, my chips would be on the self-hosted server implementation being depreciated, rather than receiving these new functions.

I hope that helps better explain my position on this matter.

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I’m also of the same opinion. Use cash whenever you can and avoid if possible using banking apps. I never used one.

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nowadays I may need a phone banking app for verification, even though I don’t want to do banking on the phone. Some banks just don’t give the option anymore to use SMS.

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Usually I’m staying quiet about this because I don’t know the international situation, but since you sport a German flag, too:
TAN generators are offered by a lot of banks around these parts as a way to authenticate. photoTAN and QR-TAN generators are very quick to use with online banking.
If your bank doesn’t offer this, it’s your choice to stay with them and show them they are doing everything right, apparently.
I terminated an account once with a bank wanting to force me into using an App (was not my primary bank, but I would do this with my primary bank, too, as long as there would be alternatives).

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having another device is uncomfortable for me since sometimes I want to check transactions while I’m not at home. I don’t want to carry around another device with me only for that. This is my personal preference. Changing bank is always an option but it can be time consuming. I think many people want to avoid it.

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Well, that went from “need” to “personal preference” rather quickly :person_shrugging:.

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Which is (somewhat) understandable as SMS is extremly insecure in a lot of ways.

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What actually constitutes a need? Does anyone need a mobile phone at all, let alone a smartphone?

You can contact people by email from your desktop or use a landline to call them. if your bank wants you to use an authenticator you can change bank (maybe) or bank at the branch, if work wants you to use an authenticator app you can demand they give you a work phone or get another job.

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Well it is for some.

I mean I enjoy using /e/os because of how well it works with the critical apps I need. It differs from country to country, but here - trying to pay for things with cash means asking if they even take them first. Many places just don’t.
You can in theory pay using your card, but for a lot of services (like buying something from a private person, paying for tram tickets, or sending cash to someone else) you have to use your phone. The main method to identify yourself online (if you want to file taxes online, book doctors appointments etc use buy/sell sites) is via a phone app.

Which obviously isn’t great for a lot of reasons and even worse that it require google services but it is a requirement here for a lot of things.

In my case I really don’t need a SMS app, I need a phone - and access to stuff like Signal that a lot of folks use for chats here. But I understand that it is needed for others

I think the core thing is to be humble towards others experiences and usage - what /e/os does well is that while its secure ENOUGH its not so secure I can’t even use my phone.

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If I didn’t need access to my finances/trading apps, I would be already on a dumbphone. :slight_smile: I don’t mean that as a disparage, I routinely review whether I can make the move away to a dumbphone altogether.

I absolutely, positively 100% appreciate the fact I can use my bank/trading apps on e/OS phone!

When I travel, I do not take a laptop with me. In the rural areas I travel around for fun, landline/PC not an option, heck even finding signal can be the chore. The phone IS the PC when I’m out moving, and sometimes finances need direct attention, or perhaps a trade to try to make some finances :wink:

Now, this can also be accomplished with browser on phone, of course some sites are not mobile friendly to say least. Have tested Linux phones and using just browser is painful but can work, they are close to my personal needs, but where I am at VoLTE calling still issues.

I only bring this all up, becuase I see some saying they don’t banking as a necessity. Whereas, in my use case, it is the primary use case & reason I am with e/OS, and wish that be noted.

Cheers!

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