as suggested by @HenkK, hereby posting an infographic i made to a new post. What do you think? Perhaps we can all think of useful infographics for/about /e/, in line with everyone’s great work on developing new logo art, new wallpapers, etc!
Hi @Rik good effort. Please can you also add how you got these statistics especially the ones where you quote numbers…was it extracted by running an app … That would make it more relevant and others can also check it out.
yes good point. For the numbers about Google i added references. For the numbers about /e/, i have assumed that the 0’s were the case. But it would be good if we can confirm that via some monitoring app, i agree. There has been some discussion for how to do that here, but perhaps others can help with this? What is the best way, measuring-wise, to confirm that the 3 categories are indeed 0 for /e/ ? Which apps should we use? And: are there more categories than these 3 that are relevant, any suggestions for improvement/expansion of this table?
What a surprise @Manoj thanks for asking the most obvious question – amongst many. @Rik did not respond earlier when, under the original post; I asked From which independent source did you populate the listing for e? He now answers with: very good point: -
Priceless unresearched content! We ALL know the phrase about assumption – I assume???
Perhaps @HenkK can tell us all how to conduct basic research on a level playing field?
Thank you, @Rik, for contributing your infographic to the /e/ community! I like it very much, because of the clear message!
@Rik, @Manoj, the need for ‘proof’ of the figures, depends very much on the goal of the infographic. If you put this on the table as your personal expectation of /e/, in contrast to other persons observations about a certain stock rom Android, then, to me, it is fine as it is.
Probably the investigation by prof Schmidt has its discussion, and the measuring of Exodus too.
I have installed the Exodus app on my /e/ phone, but it refused to measure any app on my phone, because they were not Google Play Store apps. Would be nice if Exodus could change its position on this.
In the Netguard thread, which Rik mentions, there are two users which report observations of zero to none Google traffic with their personal use of an /e/ phone. If that will be repeated by more people more often, it will put weight in the discussion. With Netguard it is also possible to detect tracker communication.
Thanks all for the replies. Good points raised about the need for further evidence for the 0’s actually being 0’s. There seem to be 2 parts to that:
- Checking the trackers in /e/ apps
- Setting up an experiment like Prof Schmidt for /e/, in line with @HenkK’s measurements.
Re 1, @Manoj, is there a plan for when the Exodus measurements of the /e/ apps will be available?
Re 2, I’ll pm Henkk to see if we can set something up.
Other suggestions for how to measure the points in the infographic still much appreciated! We cannot follow the methods by Prof Schmidt because for them there is a need for a Google user login.
@Manoj , i discussed with @HenkK, and i want to suggest that the /e/ team itself initiates and publishes a little test to show that the OS is free of calls to Google. I know you have all been working very hard to rid LOS of these calls - good idea to show this with some evidence, right!
For how to do this: my suggestion would be develop a little 24h protocol (like the study of Prof Schmidt) that works with a clean install of /e/ and that activates each of the /e/ core functions. E.g. During 24h, step 1: clean install of /e/ , Step 2: make 3 calls, Step 3: send 3 sms, Step 4: make 3 calendar appointments, Step 5: browse to 3 websites in the /e/ browser, Step 6: look up 6 locations in the /e/ maps app, etcetc.
What do you think?
You can raise it as an issue on Gitlab and based on availability of resources it will get assigned. I was thinking some of the users should also do this as an independent source of testing. We can then correlate the results. Work on areas that need improvement.
Nice infographic ! It would be indeed interesting to get some more proof and eventually give everyone the possibility to monitor tracker activity.
I have two suggestions concerning the last line “costs” (but maybe it adds too much information? To be discussed…) :
regarding the value “free” I would add a footnote specifying that one can make a donation/contribution to the /e/ project. I think we shouldn’t hide the real costs of these services (running servers and developping code costs time and money).
we should give the means to deepen the “you pay with your data” statement with at least one link in the footnote. Several sources do this rather well. For example The Conversation (here or there) or the EFF. Maybe someone has more relevant/punchy sources?
Pl check the details on the website here under ‘How is the money is used’
Some users are trying to repeatedly spam this post. These posts are getting flagged by multiple users and the posts are getting deleted.
The points expressed here by @Rik and @HenkK are valid and I have already addressed them. If you have run any apps and have statistics which prove the discussion right or wrong pl share that information.
Please do not use discussion threads or this forum to post spam and attack each other.
Thanks for the clarification, interesting page ! In order to be clearly understood: when I said that “we should not hide the real costs of these services” it is because I think that many people believe that it is OK to not pay for these services and don’t see why they should.
@Manoj – thought I was acting precisely within the rules – what on earth is wrong with asking if there is a tiny shred of evidence to support the graphical content or any verifiable experiment conducted on a level playing field? Surely these are obvious extremely pertinent valid questions and are entirely ON TOPIC and I have included quotations so cannot be off topic in the slightest.
You (3rd June) have….
…… also lifted (repeated) my question (2nd June) a day after I posted it asking for evidence – so you are saying that you can ask for evidence and I cannot? This is bizarre! No answers either!
From Rules Quote: You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, - I did (twice) so what is wrong now?
It also says in the forum rules that you should improve the discussion. Constantly throwing sarcastic comments are unhelpful and unnecessary. We all get this infographic is nothing but an idea of a format that could be used, not official numbers and, yes, completely useless without reliable information. Can you move on and stop spamming this thread already?
I agree fully: it’s an idea of a format that could be used.
Would be great if we could come up with some additional formats in this thread!
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