/e/ phone as a means of getting of the radar of Google

Hey @ Henk, did anyone say hello to you in the Netherlands? :smiley: Well Hi from me, the wife and I love Dordt, Zwolle, Amsterdam too! Also Suver N and your National Park. :wink: As another fishing Nation I hope you understand the sayings “A fishmonger never cries (shouts) Stinking Fish” and “Red Herring”…? :hushed:
It is clear that you are asking all the right questions but are getting the same old answers rolled out from e support and our admin. :weary:

It requires only a little digging around our forum to reveal the basics have been discussed at length by myself and the usual suspects. So a little enlightenment (here) in answering your profound questions may be found by reading a few of the threads below – though not exclusively. The Intercept website, Golem.de and The Register have interesting info on security: https://www.theregister.co.uk/security/
/e/ and cellphone provider tracking
Government surveillance
Arguments for privacy / against mainstream apps

“A fishmonger never cries (shouts) Stinking Fish” - So you have read and questioned the wild claims made on the front page but got no real answers or independent confirmation of anything just @manoj again asking you to DIY – do it yourself, whilst not acknowledging golem article or anything else. I made the mistake of buying eS7 based on this front page! I’m a little wiser now. You are right to dismiss the – Well it only leaks a little bit – security or privacy is only as strong as the weakest link – a point lost on efoundation admin and support – please don’t mention microG… As they say they are too busy doing other stuff like rearranging the deckchairs and cleaning the huge sign saying Privacy Enabled.
Hey, I too support any attempt to break away from normality, mainstream and the noble quest of the Knights of the Round table to take on the Dark Side, Sith and Goolag – but feel like the Knight still attempting to fight with no arms or legs left! (Monty Python – Tis but a scratch) :grin: :joy: :crazy_face:
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs
You then got the classic Red Herring

Think I had better not get too involved here else they will start threats of a ban again; but shall we ask if there is ANY independent assessment to counter the golem thread? Or from project - MicroG feature No1 Opt-in to Google Services and extend application support – Hey, I want out of everything google! MicroG feature No2; on-/offline location service – Hey, I want to turn off all location services but MicroG will not allow this! Who is in control of my phone? Certainly not me! :frowning_face:
MicroG is a common alternative to Google Play Services. Many people use this to get rid of Google tracking on their device but many people do not realise that this substantially worsens security by requiring signature spoofing which allows apps to request to bypass signature verification. - Not My Words but did anyone explain why you would want to buy an ePhone and then put Goolag Pay Apps on it? Beats my mind. :face_with_head_bandage:
Wish you all well at this time, wherever you are – Stay Safe. Yes; You and your devices! Buy a Faraday bag.
ps I use ubuntu but mostly Trisquel now on old laptop. Use Tails 4.5 plus Tor LIVE in RAM if I want a little privacy - carry it on a USB stick or DVD - use it anywhere on any computer! :ok_hand:

The whole idea of /e/ is to address everyone, including the great majority of us who want the usual mainstream apps, (and maybe get rid of it over time). Just a reminder so we stay focused.

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???

Privacy needs to learn other way of using your phone. How can you expect privacy from mainstream (googled) apps ? Furthermore with permissive settings ?

I installed /e/ without SIM card nor WiFi, disabled first Location and all microG settings… privacy need to be paranoid, first ! And /e/staff can’t ungg /e/users :smiley:

Édith says : tittle is about “getting of gg’s radar”…

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Hi @cedricoola Cedric,

ENABLE PRIVACY according to e’s front page!

Just so you can stay focused - @trefix and Edith along with myself wish to respectfully remind you of the TOPIC for this thread:-

Merci a vous Edith :smiley_cat:

@HenkK @Andy1: Maybe this is closer, to what you are looking for:

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Hello.

Same link that Manoj posted yesterday. But two times is better than none :wink:

dear all, thanks for jumping in and contributing!

@Andy1 thanks for the warm welcome! and the many references!

Conclusion: I can tell my friends and relatives that /e/ is an un-glooged android, and that to assess the validity of that claim they can read this and that and such and so post in de forum, peruse a million lines of code and/or install a network sniffer to see for themselves…

I want to be open to you, today I bought a second hand Nexus 5, installed Ubuntu Touch and started a new adventure. I might come back, don’t know anything for sure at the moment.

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What info sends to Google for apps messaging service? IMEI? IP address? Wifi MAC address? Device model and hardware? Android version? Cell service provider?

Does this make waste of all other degoogling?

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Hey @cedricoola and @tial - perhaps it is better to disagree - some INDEPENDANT REVIEW would be cool and would strengthen your posts by a massive amount:-
A fishmonger never cries stinking fish
Un poissonnier ne crie jamais du poisson puant
There is no need to send email - hang out your washing for all the world to see – thanks.
Il n’est pas nécessaire d’envoyer de courrier électronique - étendez votre linge pour que le monde entier puisse le voir - merci.

I do not use social media or register personal data to use podcasts - simple.
Je n’utilise pas les médias sociaux ni n’enregistre de données personnelles pour utiliser les podcasts – simple.

Hey did you not read my posts above. Please supply independent rebuke of golem article: Hé, vous n’avez pas lu mes posts ci-dessus. Veuillez fournir une réprimande indépendante de l’article du golem : This is also no excuse for the fact that /e/ is still in beta, because /e/ is already advertising users and selling devices with pre-installed operating systems without any indication of the disastrous security. However, this is not visible at least not for a less tech-savvy target group.(…)" Also from Project page:- MicroG feature No1 Opt-in to Google Services and extend application support - OMG
Privacy enabled ??? Spok; This is privacy Jim, but not as we know it!
Protection de la vie privée activée ??? Spok ; C’est la vie privée Jim, mais pas telle que nous la connaissons !
Therefore my advice is to stay focused - yes it is - no it isn’t - that is not an argument, yes it is - no it isn’t - that is just contradiction; no it isn’t - yes it is etc. C’est pourquoi je vous conseille de rester concentré - oui c’est le cas - non ce n’est pas un argument, oui c’est le cas - non ce n’est pas le cas - c’est juste une contradiction ; non ce n’est pas le cas - oui c’est le cas etc.
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ
Enjoy…

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Hey @HenkK Henk - What? We were just getting to know you and like you! :hugs:
We would like you to stay but appreciate you have a new toy. Wish I had this toy but have not flashed a phone yet so could buy similar from Pinephone with OS installed. Hey - it could be good to be unsure as it may force you to experiment which is probably the best way to learn. Good Luck and Stay Safe

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Hey @keypunches thanks for the killer punch - :facepunch:

I think it does - just keep a normal phone! :roll_eyes:
Hey and what about MicroG location permission that you cannot turn off?

That’s great news, keep us on the loop on how you do with Ubuntu!

Maybe we just went a little out of hand with providing too much information, which can be overwhelming. Let me just address something you said above:

Conclusion: I can tell my friends and relatives that /e/ is an un-glooged android, and that to assess the validity of that claim they can read this and that and such and so post in de forum, peruse a million lines of code and/or install a network sniffer to see for themselves…

The reality is that you are trusting someone to provide you with drinkable water, gluten-free bread, PH-neutral bathing salts, etc. But how you do assess the validity of those claims other than cross reference resources already written by reputable authorities on the matter?

My point is: you either trust what we say here or verify it yourself. We are only trying to build up trust by backing our claims with information that you can read and reference. There is no other way for us to make you believe that “we are right”.

/e/ is no silver bullet (neither is Ubuntu Touch), it’s a small project with limited resources that hasn’t even come out of beta phase yet. There’s a long way to go until it fits your needs, until then I say you should keep an eye because it is one of the most promising alternatives to achieve an ungoogled phone.

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thank you, @Andy1! :wink:

@PNJ88_Beast I feel your concern. But at the same time you are missing my point. You have not giving me too much information. You have not given me the information I asked for. I am asking for an official statement of the /e/ organization about the state of affairs concerning un-Googling Android. A sensible statement that shows that you really know what is needed and that shows the size of the task, what is achieved, and what is still under development, or what will not be solved. And because this is the primary reason of existence for /e/, what quality controls do you have in place? What independent expert controls have been done? How will you handle new android versions. Etc. Hold yourself accountable for your primary claim. This is too important to let it reside in haphazard forum threads or stories in friendly magazines.

You compare this with food I buy in a shop. Let’s follow that line for a moment. If I would eat a particular food item for one month, without health complaints, would that be convincing to you if I say ‘Hey, this stuff is really safe!’. For food there is a Food&Drug Administration that sets criteria, runs admission procedures, takes samples for a lab, etc. Producers are obliged to follow procedures in preparing. If there is a risk, the consumer is informed and can take his own decision. I know you know, but I am telling this as illustration for the mindset.

if I trace all network traffic of an clean installed /e/ phone for half an hour, and then say ‘hey guys, /e/ is 100% ungoogled!’ would you believe me?

Good intentions, working hard, repeating ‘privcay-concern slogans’ is not enough.

Apologies for repeating myself over and over. Some friendly posts trigger me…

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Ah, I see now sorry to keep running in circles like that. As far as I know there is no such statement nor I can give you one since I’m not part of the project. I agree that an official statement detailing how /e/ is making progress would be highly beneficial.

I expect that statement to come eventually, maybe with the 1.0 version release. For what is worth, you can kind of see what progress has been made through the latest updates posted in the forum, afterall actions speak louder than words so to speak. For your reference:

2019 Summer Update
Update and 2020 Roadmap

There is this external review and is interesting to read about the issues /e/ had, and how there has been some progress (even if there’s still a lot of work left to do). Is not a full audit of the code or anything like that, but one of the most in depth reviews that I know of.

Review by Infosec-Handbook - part 1
Review by Infosec-Handbook - part 2
Review by Infosec-Handbook - part 3

Hope this helps, and really please let us know how does Ubuntu Touch works for you, we are all interested in finding alternatives to Google ecosystem :slight_smile:

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Hello.

Car builders do. But can you really trust them (CO/NOx, for example) ?
And for that enormous (and dangerous) industry, with so much $$$ across the world, how many trustable “independent expert controls” ?

Perhaps your asking is a little bit “too much” for a such little team… Want to buy the “/e/ company” ???

Phew @PNJ88_Beast I got all excited for a couple of minutes there! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: but :sob: :weary:

Thought articles were going to contradict golem article rather than confirm golem’s findings and also critical of e attitude for accepting third party assurances rather that testing them out. To quote direct from InfoSec “Nobody seemingly knows the operator of cleanapk.com. Cleanapk’s privacy policy doesn’t comply with current GDPR requirements. Moreover, some users raised legal concerns. Due to this, we don’t trust this mysterious source for applications.” Confirming leaks too – to Goolag? Also I found it alarming yet entirely consistent that e refused to answer emails from them or answer questions – sound familiar? Go on – follow the Beast’s Infosec links :+1: and flip down to security heading and get it from the horse’s mouth rather than 70 year old pensioner!
Hope I am on subject here and not too sarcastic or abusive to anyone as I have been intimidated again by M…j – what do readers think – please be specific rather than vaguely pointing. I will not be offended but may answer back! Open discussion without threats and inventing imaginary rules is the best way forward but some do not like this. Thank you C…c – Ooooops! :face_with_hand_over_mouth:
Thanks to the Beast for posting InfoSec links; a good informative read :thinking: – I hope e gets there eventually – though someone getting Manoj to intimidate me to stifle discussion is perhaps not the best path to take? :frowning_face:
It should be known and duly noted that I could have so easily used my credit card and got ALL my money back and obliged ECorp to pick up the phone from my house at their cost. I chose not to do this to help e foundation rather than use false description of product regarding google, privacy and data safety. Hey; now they want to ban me!
ps Please visit the thread by @donut3 and the post there by a knowledgeable security consultant @Pablo . In particular the TED video by Tristan Harris as it explains why the google apps hook is so strong and may help end the addiction of some and help getting off the radar of google :cold_sweat: :face_with_head_bandage: :face_with_thermometer: :wink:
Arguments for privacy / against mainstream apps
You may ask yourselves why and by who the Topic is being closed down? To stifle debate? To Cover-Up? Will this thread be the next to be shut down? :thinking:

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Hi @trefix Edith et le chat. With the greatest of respect could I point out

Just like eFoundation claims of privacy and data safety etc - the false claims made by most in the motor industry were exposed and it turned into a humungous scandle - n’est pas? It was also well known by technicians and other insiders for years. I used to design fuel injection systems.

Perhaps it would be too much to correct false claims first - this could be done by just one person, never mind a small team?

Entente Cordiale et Théophile Delcassé - it is still working :smile_cat:

Merci a vous et Edith :+1:

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Another six Topics where I have posted have been shut down - did not know there was an automatic shutdown on my posts. Is this clumsy censorship worse than that of the Asian country they keep banging on about? Automatically closed in 5 days :joy: Funny -Yes, Sad Too :woozy_face:
Guess eFound cannot take reasoned counter-arguments or any other criticism - hopes for improvement now look very bleak indeed. :nauseated_face:
It would appear false statements are in the FAQ too - :face_with_monocle:
Quote: You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people…provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.

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Hey there. Just wanted to give my full support and appreciation to /e/ and all the people working in the project for the great work they’re doing. Using /e/OS is a treat for me. It’s giving me the best way off G**gle I could ever imagine, it’s priceless. Bless

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