Sorry to have you go. I find your judgment a bit harsch though, because you probably have in mind how important our mission to create products that help people escape the permanent collection of their data by private organisations.
I understand your frustrations, that can happen of course, but sometimes we (the team) also need some acknowledgement about how huge what as been done in the past 7 years.
Launching such an ambitious project takes a bit of time, with periods of doubts, and periods of joy, and we’re not helped a lot.
Also I find a bit ironic what you write here:
Anyway, yes, we want to push what we do to the largest number of users, because we don’t want Privacy (whatever you put in it) to be something available to only a little number of people, like people who could pay for it, people who are skilled enough, people who can spend a lot of time learning about things. No. We are trying to preserve fundamental rights that are totally ignored in the mainstream industry, and give this option to live in a better digital world to as many people as possible on this planet.
So yes, we introduce more features that are currently missing to fit with most users’ usage. We work with hardware manufacturers to make the best possible combo between the hard and the soft.
We give choice. We are transparent and we explain what we do, and how we do.
The satisfied majority is often silent, so: I am a very happy user since several years. Keep going /e/OS & Murena, you are doing great. Thank you for your hard work and endless efforts!
It sure is complicated to prevent faults or dependency failures, but in reality to remove most of the unnecessary applications is well possible, if one doesn’t want to use some Murena-/e/ OS specific features.
Just did that by manual removal of most (for me) unused applications:
The Murena account manager, which I don’t use (I don’t sync it in this way)
SpeechToText
ParentalControl
two unnecessary hotwordenrollment-googleblibs which were left in this Community version
FindMyDevice
BlissWeather (now using another weather tool)
WebCalendarManager
OpenKeyChain
Mail
Browser… and some different ones.
Checked everything else, works still fine so far. Advanced Privacy does its job, App Lounge works.
Only thing one shouldn’t do is to click the remaining links in “Settings” towards Parental control and Find my device, else Settings will close (that’s expected). Most other links are gone, so no risk.
Test was completed in two ways:
First to test if the non-root variant which uninstalls it purely for the actual user (it is still on the phone, but doesn’t run anymore in the background for the given user) will work on those system packages, as well.
Then proceeded to remove them completely by adb root (which requires a rooted phone), as well without bigger hassles. In the end removed the related data by pm clear commands.
Now there’s only the stuff left that I prefer on /e/ OS - until the next big update, at least.
Newer versions of those system applications could be reinstalled by big updates, but they’re removable, again, so that’s acceptable.
Three hours of work and some preparations and I’m fine with whatever way Murena decides to go with /e/ in terms of bundled applications. My positive opinion of /e/ is back for now.
Actually, with /e/OS adb root only requires activating Rooted debugging in the Developer options beforehand, it doesn’t require rooting the phone as a whole .
I wondered about that part in the other topic already …
… because this here method is OS update-proof in my experience, the “uninstalled” (disabled for user 0) Apps stay that way after OS updates.
Worth considering depending on priorities.
good to know! Last time to need adb root was like 15 years ago.
Couldn’t (due to missing update) verify that aspect, I personally prefer to remove the applications directly from the remounted system folders.
My reason lays in a full factory reset which else would restore them for the “fresh” user 0 (which I don’t want).
But for users which don’t want to go a very risky way (no restore without reinstalling), the disabled for user 0 method is definitely more reliable, as the uninstall (for the actual user) could probably be undone by
“adb shell cmd package install-existing com.whatever.package.org”.
Aside from 2-3 little bugs, the uninstall works fine on my device - but the process for sure is not recommended universally, as it was an experiment with just one device, one Community build of /e/ OS in one version.
But so far I’m happy with the results, the removed applications had no usability for me.
That’s sad to hear. While I partly understand you I must say the hardware issues you have are up to you. I chose the other route and bought a used 2 year old flagship Sony xperia 1 with wireless charging, headphone jack, excellent camera, expendable storage up to 1 TB, 4k OLED display, DP alt mode and what not. They are fairly cheap since the one I got is stuck on android 13 and therefore not too desirable. With /e/ you can upgrade to higher android versions and so I got the opposite experience from you. Flag ship phone with everything I could desire for an absolute steal. Yes you do have to put up with potentially damaged used devices but in my experience it is still cheaper at the end of the day.
Regarding android auto, there are ways to get it running
Although I must say it only worked iffy for me.
If you do expect the absolute state of the art experience you do need to go to first party android or iOS and there will most likely never be another way. With data privacy awareness it is always a balancing act between convenience and data protection/control of your property. If it’s actually not as important to you who gets your data, you don’t want to put in any effort into setting up your phone and you don’t mind switching your phone more often (or trust them to stick to their latest 7 years update policy) then I would even recommand “stock” android from google, because you will always get the latest updates and features.
If you prefer data privacy, virtually unlimited software updates, open source software and don’t mind to put some effort into your most powerful everyday tool only then I would actually recommend staying on /e/.
It has always been a choice between convenience and data privacy and always will be.
I’m perfectly happy with my FP5 with murena, despite coming from high end iPhone, some thinks might need some improvement but nothing critical for me. I admire the courage of this small team of people who have decided to take this challenge. Personally I come from 40 years of Apple universe but I have shifted this year to Linux on a Tuxedo and murena on a FP. The reasons are geopolitical evolution, confidentiality fears, environmental and social values. A more or less optimized camera, the lack of wireless charging or some software feature are of no relevance for me in face of these reasons. I’m very grateful to murena team for their good work, please keep going ahead.
Your points are well-taken – for users who want the same things as you (easy access to flagship hardware, better camera, easy car connectivity, and so on). But personally, I’m in my second year of e/OS on a Fairphone 4 and I’m generally satisfied – in fact, I’m quite impressed by the improvement in the operating system over that time. What Gael et al have accomplished in the past 7 years is nothing short of astounding.
Sure there are challenges – the lengthy Murena cloud outage of 2024-25 was a big one (that I believe is unlikely to be repeated). But all the apps I need run fine. Photos are good enough for my purposes. And most importantly I have a phone that plays nicely with the environment and with the people who make it (Fairphone) and an operating system that prioritizes privacy and makes my data my data better than any other OS I’ve found.
For me, someone who does value privacy highly, what is the alternative to e/OS? Google’s surveillance ecosystem is a non-starter. Apple’s walled garden is arguably somewhat more private, if only because surveillance is not Apple’s primary business model (expensive hardware is). But for those for whom privacy is the primary motivation, there is really no happy alternative to e/OS.
There are happys alternatives of /e/OS like the others AOSP GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, iodeOS or Linux OS like Ubuntu Touch, postmarketOS. You have the choice.
To me, /e/OS and CalyxOS are the best choice. Why, because it’s open-source, free, respect privacy and it’s compatible with Fairphone, the best fair phone. I’m agree with @BlueStar for the reasons, 100%.
Yes there are alternatives, but none that offer the breadth of features and support like LineageOS or /e/os.
Device support is a big consideration. GrapheneOS only supports Pixel phones. CalyxOS is the same with the addition of a few Motorola phones. IodeOS has better device support but still minimal. So to have all the options open you would need to buy a Pixel phone.
Then /e/os/ has some features above LineageOS that are pretty significant to me personally. The Murena Workspace is a big one for me. Then the advanced privacy function is a big benefit.
In any case you’re never going to get the level of features and integration with an alternative ROM compared to OEM Android. You have to give something up for more control over the system. Whether it’s too much or not is a personal decision.
I can understand how the OP feels. There can be some frustration involved in running /e/os. I’m on that fence myself as I currently use a phone with /e/os and another one running OEM Android. /e/os is like a breath of fresh air in user level control and maintainability, but there are still some things I’d have to give up to move off of OEM Android completely.
Why GrapheneOS just support Pixel ? Because is the best phone in term of security. CalyxOS supports Fairphone 4 and 5 too, it’s not insignificant.
I completely agree with you that having a real-time overview of tracker blocking by application with Advanced Privacy is clearly a plus, because it’s native. I’m totally agree with you except for Murena Workspace because I don’t use it, I have my own NAS DIY on TrueNAS.
For me, someone who does value privacy highly, what is the alternative to e/OS? (…) there is really no happy alternative to e/OS.
This is completely false. We have a lot of alternative in AOSP or Linux. It’s depend what is your phone. If you have a Fairphone, it’s perfect because you can choose every OS I mentionned except GrapheneOS.
What is the most secure and privacy-respecting mobile operating system?
The most secure and privacy-respecting mobile OS depends on your balance between features, user control, and threat model. Here are the top contenders:
GrapheneOS (Android-based – Pixel only)
Security: Extremely hardened. Enhanced sandboxing, advanced memory protection, fast updates.
Privacy: No Google services by default. User can optionally install Google apps in a sandbox.
Usability: Very close to stock Android. Compatible with regular Android apps.
Supported devices: Google Pixel only (for security reasons).
Summary:The most secure mobile OS available for general use without Google.
CalyxOS (Android-based – Pixel and a few others)
Security: Less strict than GrapheneOS but still strong.
Privacy: No tracking by default. Includes MicroG (a free/open alternative to Google Play Services).
Usability: More user-friendly than GrapheneOS. Allows use with or without Google services.
Target users: Users who value privacy but want a smoother, easier experience.
Summary: A very good balance between privacy and usability.
/e/OS (Murena) (De-Googled Android – various devices)
Privacy: No Google by default. Optional sync with their own privacy-friendly cloud.
Security: Not as hardened as GrapheneOS or CalyxOS. Slower update cycle.
Usability: Designed for the general public. Comes with its own app store and privacy scores.
Target users: Everyday users looking for a de-Googled phone that “just works.”
Summary:Easy to use, strong privacy, decent security but not top-tier.
I’m totally behind /e/OS, as is CalyxOS, these 2 OS being my favorites for my Fairphone. Mainly /e/OS because with Advanced Privacy, I can concretely see what’s going on with trackers (Advanced Privacy is based on Adaway and TrackerControl, so it’s possible to better control the data retrieved by trackers on other AOSP for example but the merit of /e/OS is to have it natively) and CalyxOS to test the new features of Android which is in version 15 on CalyxOS for info. But that doesn’t stop me from having blinders on and saying that there’s no alternative to /e/OS.
I don’t think it’s security (just my opinion), I think it’s because Pixel phones are are easiest to support. A builder can easily get the binaries needed for a custom ROM.
Most makers are pretty tight lipped about proprietary drivers and stuff, but Google is not. There’s a lot of extra work involved in supporting other devices and obviously Graphene does not want to put the effort forth to do it. I can’t blame them.
/e/os rides on the coat tails of LOS which is smart. LOS does most of the heavy lifting in terms of putting together what’s needed for each make and model of phone. They have a big team, bigger than anyone else. I’d be using LOS if /e/os was not there to put a better icing on the cake.
Yes, there are some good alternative OSes, for some people, with some phone models, and some budgets, under some use cases. For me, /e/OS is the best all-around compromise. Your mileage may vary.
Yes totally, but don’t say there are not good alternative to /e/OS. I’ve shown you the opposite.
The good thing is that, whatever smartphone you have, you can install an alternative to Google (on Android).
What I think is great about /e/OS is that the team wants to make it available to as many people as possible, so that as many people as possible can free themselves from Apple or Google.
Well said. /e/OS checks a lot of boxes, especially on a Fairphone. And I’m a Linux user on my laptop. It is obvious that /e/OS plays nicely with Linux, compared to, say, iOS.
I didn’t see this reply. You right, it’s correct, like CalyxOS too on the Fairphone or other AOSP on other smartphone too. The connection between AOSP and Linux is good. But compare with iOS isn’t the point.
I have now decided to join the dark side of the Force. It’s like a rush: photos of incredible quality, an excellent Hasselblad camera app, full entertainment in the (Android) car, every single app runs, and the Oneplus 13 is a revelation!
I know that I am now under Google’s thumb! But after four years of austerity with Fairphone and e/OS, it’s like waking up in a different world.
I will now flash my e/OS Fairphone 5 with the stock firmware (…then I’ll finally know how to do it!) and then (if I succeed) sell it for good money at Rebuy.
I wish you all the best, Murena, I wish you every success, I will keep my account here, maybe I’ll come back remorsefully!
Funny how things shift — I recently made the switch to Fairphone eOS and let go of my flagship device. In a way, it feels like taking a step back… but also a conscious one.
Thanks for everything you contributed while you were part of the movement. It mattered — and still does.
.
GrapheneOS (Android-based – Pixel only)
Summary: The most secure mobile OS available for general use without Google.
CalyxOS (Android-based – Pixel and a few others)
/e/OS (Murena) (De-Googled Android – various devices)