Please read this it makes me and maybe people doubt

Using /e/OS Applications
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I usually abstain from writing just to criticise someone’s work. Rather than say “X is wrong”, I prefer to say “X could improve by doing Y”.

However, in the case of Murena, there’s just too much shameless lying to the public. I don’t think this kind of activity should be allowed to continue.

Live stream
Murena had a live stream today, announcing their privacy centric tools and services. On this stream, they explained how many modern companies continuously spy on users, and send all sorts of granular data to advertising companies (Google, Facebook and many others).

The same page where this stream was happening (https://launch.murena.com/) included a lot of these very “analytics” that Murena claims to stand against. It even used multiple of Google’s APIs. So yeah, Google knew of everyone watching this stream.

Pretty hard to trust this company based on their initial presentation. I can’t imagine how you can “accidentally” integrate Google into your livestream.

eOS opt-in to Google online services for you
eOS is an Android OS created by e.foundation. The title on their website is “deGoogled unGoogled smartphone”.

I read a lot of negative comments on eOS online, so eventually reached out to them to confirm what I’d been hearing.

e.foundation’s staff confirmed that the phone includes multiple applications that talk to Google’s services out-of-the box.

Honestly, I’m amazed of the shamelessness of this organisation mis-representing itself in such a way. Then again, the average consumer doesn’t understand enough about tech or privacy for this to be a problem. Anyone who want privacy but is not an expect of the subject will likely fall for this and buy from them anyway.

The obvious solution is to not include analytics, tracking, and Google integrations in the page where you’re streaming a presentation talking about the privacy issues of analytics and Google spying on everyone.

The obvious solution is to not enable integration with Google’s services out-of-the-box on a product tagged as “unGoogle deGoogled”. If you insist on installing them by default, then at least require users to opt-in to these kind of services.

Just another cloud that’s the same
Murena offers cloud hosting. Their services are based on unencrypted, and they have access to all user personal and private data.

They promise not to snoop – but so do many other companies that are simply lying.

Given what we’ve seen so far, there’s zero reason to trust any of their promises of privacy. And promises is all they offer; their services don’t encrypt on device, or anything alike.

Real privacy comes from tools that don’t allow third parties to snoop on one’s personal data. The typical example is encrypting data with a key that only the owner knows. Privacy does not come from a tool that allows third parties to snoop on one’s data and a promise that they won’t.

The sad state of afairs
We’ve lived many years in a world where sustainable, open-srouce ethical phone were not something that anyone was talking about. It was a void waiting to be filled.

What worries me deeply, is that this void is just filled by organisations lying about their values. Organisations that claim to be privacy centric and ethical, but in reality, are more of the same.

It worries me that the guys actually working on open source, privacy-centric tools, won’t get any attention because the attention is going to companies like Murena.

Then again, we live in a world where companies like Facebook and Google claim that “they care about our privacy”, so blatant lies to the public are the norm.

Dunno why I’m so surprised.
Regain your privacy! Adopt /e/ the unGoogled mobile OS and online servicesphone

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On my machine, in Firefox, the NoScript extension detects only these scripts related to content delivery:

  • murena[.]com
  • akamaized[.]net
  • vimeo[.]com
  • vimeocdn[.]com

Privacy Badger further detects these 2 trackers, which it disables by default:

  • player.vimeo[.]com
  • 62vod-adaptive.akamaized[.]net
    The video still plays with those 2 disabled.

I don’t see anything belonging to Google.

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Brave Browser does not detect any trackers from Google on my end. The trackers come from external software like Vimeo, which were used for this livestream. It’s possible that Vimeo also uses Google Analytics, but there’s nothing the e Foundation or Murena can do about that for now.

It was not an accidentally, if they did it at all. Vimeo was probably one of the more “privacy friendly” solutions the e Foundation could use for a livestream. It didn’t make a very good impression on me either, but otherwise I’m a happy /e/ user. By the way, the other /e/OS and Murena websites do not use these trackers.

Of course, via microG and App Lounge :smiley: However, only in anonymous form. The e Foundation tries to limit the amount of data sent to Google, but they probably mean by “degoogled” that while data is sent to Google when it needs to be, Google can’t create a user profile about the users.

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And if the user him/herself installs bad apps and uses them, there could be many, many trackers running.

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Thank you @Taurus and @Tux17 for confirming that /e/OS was a good choice, after all.
I am not expert in these topics, but my feeling is that everyone wishes to always have the best in every situation (in this case, “I want a smartphone which prevents everybody and everything from spying on me! Nothing / zero / nada”), and then you have to face the actual constraints (forget the apps and a smart OS = buy a dumb phone) … and in the end, it is a matter of trade-offs… and there, /e/OS might be the best option …

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I’ll just say that even a dumbphone has an OS…and what it’s doing in the background is generally hidden from the user, so there’s not much safety to be found there. :slight_smile:

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Hello thanks for the correct answers.
I am now reassured that /e/ was a good choice.

I wonder why such a person is so doubtful about /e/ would this person also like to have /e/os on his smartphone?

Thanks anyway .

While I’m here I have a question about my /e/os cloud storage I have 1 gb and the system says it’s full now I’ve deleted all but a few photos and videos yet the system gives indicates that it is still full.

What am I not seeing or what am I doing wrong?
I do use the /e/os apps is it there?

would like your advice.

grt JbdV

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I don’t use any online backup services, so I can’t help there. I seem to recall there was a thread or two about that recently, so you might just search for “e-drive full” or something like that.

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Do you have a source on that?

Murena offers cloud hosting. Their services are based on unencrypted, and they have access to all user personal and private data.

On the privacy tab it says the following:

All data on your “own” /e/ server is encrypted and never shared, sold or traded to any third party. We will only disclose the limited user data we possess if legally obliged to do so.

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Hello

may I ask where you keep everything?
I also want to get rid of cloud service as much as possible.

But how do I do that?

I have a Fairphone 3+ 64GB and a 32GB SD card.

what is your advice?

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Well I keep it on the SD card, then backup the SD card periodically to PC, and/or to a DVD.

This assumes one is going to be a little selective about what you save long term.

Why would anyone assume a backup to someone else’s server (aka Cloud) is better than their own backup under their own full control?

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I agree with @aibd; I’d rather not store my data online.

  • Music is on my microSD card (but after all, this music is only a copy of the files that are already stored on my computer).
  • I set photos to save automatically to the microSD, then later copy them to the computer. If I’m traveling without a laptop (unlikely), then I back up photos daily to a USB drive, if they’re important.
  • If, on my phone, I happen to collect any other files or downloads that I want to save, it’s the same process.
  • My email is synced by IMAP to all my devices, so no need for backup.
  • I have no interest whatsover in backing up chat history or saving it long term. In fact, I routinely delete all messages, unless there’s a particular one I need to keep.
  • I use List My Apps from F-Droid to periodically save a list of all my installed apps. I typically append that list to an email draft, which gets synced to all my devices for easy access.
  • If I need to, I can use TWRP to make a complete backup of the device, then store it on the microSD card.
  • I also use two external drives to regularly save backups of all the files on my computer(s).

Using a microSD card with adequate storage capacity is important, of course, which also makes it super easy to transfer everything to a different device when needed.

These techniques work for my requirements; others prefer to not have to actively think about it, and just use automatic “cloud” (i.e. a server that’s not in your control) storage.

P.S. In the unlikely event of a fire at my home, I would grab my phone, my wallet, the computer, and one of the small external backup drives on the way out the door. :slight_smile:

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This is interesting …
I thought that a dumb phone = no internet connection = basically no risks (ok, communication channels are opened for SMS + calls, but I thought that, compared to what can be found out there in the WWW, that is really minor …) .

But if this idea is wrong, please feel free to contradict :+1:

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I’m only speculating here, but consider that in the U.S., for example, the status of 2G and 3G shutdown nationwide for the main carriers is:

AT&T
2G Shutdown: January 2017
3G Shutdown: February 22, 2022

Verizon
2G Shutdown: December 31, 2019
3G available until December 31, 2022

T-Mobile
2G shutdown date: December 31, 2022
3G Shutdown: October 1, 2021
3G Shutdown (formerly Sprint): January 1, 2022

So in the near future, there won’t be any legacy telephone networks; there will only remain 4G and 5G, which are both data networks. That means, even simple feature phones will have to use 4G or 5G to connect, which essentially means communicate over the internet, unless I’m mistaken.

So I suspect that although a phone has a user interface that’s mostly devoid of complex options or features, it doesn’t mean that things aren’t happening unseen in the background. It might not have a web browser, but it will likely have a simple menu with various functions or applications (i.e. apps). And we know from our use of tracker blockers that launching and using an app can generate connections to somewhere, some good, some bad.

I’m just saying that every electronic device has an OS, even if it’s very simplified, and that to a certain extent we can’t really trust it until we verify what it’s doing or not doing. :wink:

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My experience is similar. I do use the cloud for stuff that I want to be available on - and synched between - different devices. For example

  • Notes synched between my phone and ~2 or 3 laptop and desktop computers
  • Calendar and contacts synched between mine and my wife’s phones and desktops (running Thunderbird)
  • Files that I want to copy or sync between devices, or make available via a NextCloud public link.

I did all of the above using a free hosted NextCloud account long before /e/ came along. The calendars and contacts are still in that cloud. The Notes, and most of the file transfer / sync uses the /e/ cloud

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I forgot to mention the calendar. I don’t need to sync or back up anything from there, really, but if I did need to preserve it, I could just export it to a file.

EDIT: Recently I started using Warpinator for super-easy transfer of files between my phones and computers over my wireless network.

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It makes sense to me :slight_smile: :+1:

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