POLL: Should e-apps store incl. 'unsafe' apps?

Firstly things like exodus or classy shark only look for tracker URLs in the app. They do not and cannot find direct tracking. For example exodus shows chrome has no trackers. So identifying “safe” apps is not as easy as using these scanning programs. There should be a way for appropriately aware people (not machines) to curate the app list and assign a privacy rating

Secondly I think all apps should be available in the /e/ store, for the simple reason that if /e/ is to attract users from the general population the full range of apps must be available. However I think a search for an app should list results in order of safety (so “safe” apps come first). It should also be clear which category the app is in. For example a green background for “safe” apps, yellow for “some concerns” and red for “you really should avoid this app”. There would need to be a fourth background colour for apps which have not yet been reviewed.

As for the need of an app store, definitely, for 2 reasons. Firstly /e/ should be secured so that the “install apps from unknown sources” can be left in the “no” position. This is for security. Secondly general users want to click the app store icon and get an app, they don’t want to first look in f-droid, then if nothing suitable look in aurora. This will quickly devolve into just look in aurora, which is not where users should be looking.

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I liked this suggestion. A color code to easily identify Apps. Let keep the suggestions flowing.

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The purpose of the /e/ installer is to offer users the opportunity to access the largest possible choice of Android apps, with additional features to provide more information about privacy (and possibly other information in the future such as energy score etc.)
Assumption for the rest of this message: /e/ is not meant to geeks or people who can tweak their smartphone.

So what are our options?
1- no app installer: no way (users would need to authorized installation of third party apps, install Yalp/Aurora/F-droid etc. == geeks)
2- have F-droid only: too limited in term of number of applications. And yes, some people want or need to use apps that are very bad in term of privacy (including me as an example: I have to use Whatsapp, among a number of IM clients, for business purposes).
3- have Yalp/Aurora: can’t distribute, these are illegal software regarding Google Play Store TOS, and doesn’t offer apps from F-droid.
4- have Aptoide store: no guarantee at all about apps quality (it seems some APKs are even modified by users to add ads etc.), and doesn’t offer F-Droid apps

Therefore, we need something new that:

  • provides as many mainstream Android apps as possible, with a privacy score, and in the future some filters to trigger the way apps are sorted, so that users can choose in good knowledge of things. (/e/ is about freedom of choice, that’s a core project value since I started the project).
  • provides F-droid apps as well
  • provides PWA apps
    All of this in a consistent manner, that can be used straightforware by anyone.

That’s the /e/ Apps installer.

If you find equivalent software somewhere else, please warn me.

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OK, now I get it. There’s a plan.

But there’s a lot of work to do. Today, /e/ 's app store is the third place where I look for apps, after F-droid and Aurora, or after Aurora and F-droid, depending on what I’m looking for.

Yes, a big plan which needs years to realize.

Already took side for /e/ installer (if taking side is even required at all) in this thread, would like to reiterate here :slight_smile:.

Exactly. /e/ will struggle to reach critical mass without the option to add popular, mainstream Android apps. Keep focusing on the bigger goals ahead of you. We appreciate the work you’re doing. Thanks Gael.

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The last thing we should be doing is policing what the user can and cannot install. I believe our role is to provide a clean environment (read ROM) to start with. Provide users enough info on what is bad in each app and then leave it at that. I would not want anyone to tell me what I can and cannot install on my phone. Similarly i expect most users also would be wise enough to make their own decisions. W/e/ telling users this is all you can run on /e/ is similar to a stock ROM from a vendor packed with bloatware most of which we never use.
Just my personal view on the subject. There will always be two sides to any argument.

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Personal opinion:

  • Inform the user thanks to Privacy Ranking (done on /e/ app store)
  • Let the user decide.
  • Fix bugs and limitations to make sure /e/ works properly (we are not yet there and very little seems be done by the dev team to fix bugs identified months ago).

Currently /e/ has limitations and bugs which prevent me to run some apps I would need (and for which I am aware they are not 100% purist open source), and that is a real burden for day to day life.

If /e/ intends to be usable for mass market and not only Linux activists, then it is important it runs well (no more bugs) and let the user take control of their experience…and yes… some of us are still connected to friends via Whatsapp and other, will takes time before Signal becomes the standard and openstreet maps comes close to Google map.

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I think most people are don’t understand what I mean. Sure, everyone should install what he want. But e-OS is a privacy oriented OS and all around e.foundation will it also be. So why is the apps store against this rule ?
People which are decide to use a googlefree OS are not the mainstream. SO the argument for mass market doesn’t count. There will be no Android clone for mass market in the future.

Once again: ALL products of e.foundation are standing for privacy. why is the apps store an increase. That’s the question ?

And when mum und dad are buying a e-phone the are thinking they will get a trackerfree prhone and that the apps the can download are also trackerfree. They rely on it, because they’re not geeks/nerds.

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Point taken. Then we also have Mum’s and Dad’s who want a phone and also want to communicate with their children and grand children spread all over the world and only reachable through the whatsapps of the app world. How do they install these apps. This is an easy way to install these apps for such users. They will see a list of tracker that get added and then decide. The rest of us who do not want these apps can happily live without downloading and installing them.
More importantly at the moment as @Pistou mentioned a good many of these apps do not work when installed through Apps Installer :frowning: that needs to be fixed.

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In my opinion, a clean environment (read ROM) should have priority in the task.

As soon as possible /e/ should be implemented on 9-pie for all supported devices.

At the same time a secure e.cloud & e.email according to EU data protection regulation (EU-DSGVO).

These features will attract media attention.

P.S. I am willing to pay a decent amount of money for good Un-Googled services.

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If there is f-droid available as default apps store, the can install aurora and with aurora they have access to all they want.

That’s the big misunderstanding of my statement. If people really need such worst apps like WhatsApp they could it install, but not with e-apps store. I think it will be a good ‘reminder’ if the user will search in e-apps store for an app and he don’t find it. Than he will remind: Oh, my app is ‘unsecure’ because it’s not available in e-app store. so the whole thing also has a learning effect.

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If /e/ doesn’t need manpower (costs money) to maintain a /e/ Apps Store, /e/ development could concentrate on a clean environment (read ROM).

With some of the savings, F-Droid Store and Auroa Store could be sponsored. The same goes for LineageOS and mircoG.

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As already stated, Aurora cannot be regarded as a long-term alternative store and can probably not be promoted by /e/ since it violates Google’s TOS.

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Agree with @GaelDuval /e/ OS should have it’s own App store, not depending on others. User’s who care about privacy can decide to install using the score, users who don’t care just download everything :slight_smile:

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What about a filter in e-Apps?

The initial (when starting/browsimg for the first time in Apps) filter could be set as “safe and untracking only”.

But the user could have the possibility to select another type of filter, where apps are scaled by their score on privacy and safety.

And messages such as “by installing this app, you’re agreeing with it tracking you and your data. Are you sure you want to install this app? - search for similar safe apps”

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I mean, if it’s all about “your Data is YOUR data”, then the user should also have the freedom to give these datas if he/she feels good with it… :man_shrugging:t2:

Thanks @harvey186 for having started off this discussion, but personally I disagree with what you are suggestion.

I see /e/ as an alternative Andoid eco-system for phones that respects privacy. For me it should be easy to use and work out of the box - out of the box as well respecting privacy.

BUT I would like my Mum being able to use it, and if she decides that she wants to install WhatsApp she should be able to do so - out of the box as well without installing something like Aurora. But she should be enabled as well to understand what she is actually doing and what would be the impact of installing an app such as WhatsApp.

There are many people caring for privacy on their phones but who are not ready (yet) to abolish all apps and services that they used to use before right away (as I am still sticking to my Gmail account for now). /e/ should welcome all those people and support them smoothly with their personal transition. For me that would imply:

  • facilitating the use of FOSS apps;

  • informing about alternatives to unfree and tracker stuffed apps (when showing WhatsApp, at the bottom of the page there could be a section ‘suggested apps’ that proposes WhatsApp alternatives)

  • providing (additional to the privacy rating that is already existing) a clear color code within the AppsStore (thanks @rurmonas for this idea) as well as a ranking for searches that gives priority to FOSS apps.

But for me there is another point. Independently from trackers, there are many apps relying on Google Services i.e. for Cloud Messaging. This dependency should be easily visible in AppsStore.

Furthermore, an /e/ user should find in the phones settings under Apps & Notifications easily again the information what trackers an app comes with and if there is a Google Services dependency.

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And there is one more thing. I’d bet that many users even here in the forum have a rough idea about trackes but do not understand what their impact really is, if there is a eally effective way to block them or maybe not.

What would be necessary to cope with that: awaeness raisin/enlightenment/low-threshold explainations that are compatible with a broad public.

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