+1 for remaining mum & dad focused. If we get the ability to remove system apps then we of the technical persuasion are able to customise to meet our own James Bond requirements.
1 Like
Having seen that this thread is perhaps one of the logest on the forum, this is obviously a subject that everyone wants to have his say about 
So not to be left out, I’ll add my 2 cents worth. While I can understand that most of the early users of /e/ here were attracted to it by @GaelDuval ‘s excellent presentation of the intentions of a de-googled OS, as I was, we should admit as others have pointed out that we are all aware of the problems created by a quasi-monopolistic control of net-users’ data and this is why we came here. However, I think that for a large part of the population the awareness of the risks concerning unauthorised or even illegal use of their data has only recently started as a result of political events that we all know and particularly here in Europe the feeling that we as citizens should be able to resist this and in some way help to “break the data slavery” mentioned on the e.foundation site is slowly beginning to spread to a wider public. As one of the baby-boomer generation I can see amongst my friends and acquaintances - for the most part retired or near retirement - a certain uneasiness, if not anxiety, that the new technologies they have only in later life started to use could be a danger not just for themselves but for their children and coming generations. So they are quite open to the idea of having more control over who knows what about them and feel less constrained by the fact that everyone else uses smartphones made by Apple, Samsung or whoever. If retired, they are also free of any work or employer’s obligation to use only certain systems or apps. Having given my partner a mobile that I recently installed /e/ on it has been interesting for me to see how she, a hesitant user of new technologies, adjusts to using the phone. For the moment, apart from the phone and sms app, the only other apps she uses are Telegram for messaging and calls, the Gallery app for photos she takes or receives and occasional use of the Browser. Having used previously a basic smartphone with the now defunct Firefox OS, she has had little difficulty in mastering the current interface of /e/ and when the new repository of apps becomes available, I doubt that she will download anything more than a few practical tools for travel information, yellow pages, connecting to doctors or health centre services, possibly a banking app, but not much more. That’s why I agree with @Superman that “current users are not end users” because the complication of choosing whether to install a more high-security profile or even using pre-installed apps like a Tor browser would probably make a “mum or grandpa” user more anxious and reluctant to try something they know little or nothing about. While I wouldn’t say it’s exactly a case of being unable to teach an old dog new tricks, as the saying goes, I do think “old dogs” need more time and simpler steps to acquire the “new tricks” of mastering their data usage. But the idea of using an /e/ equipped phone certainly makes them feel more reassured and perhaps even proud of the fact they’re doing their little bit to halt the spread of the GAFA tentacles. Have a high-security profile choice if you want or even a “bare-bones” core system for those who want to configure their own layer of apps, but by all means keep the present lay-out as screen-loads of apps or menu lists to install as long as your arm will never have wide-spread appeal, especially among the users I have evoked.
1 Like
@Grendel I agree on the fact that “Mum and Dad and Grandpa and Grandma” need to have an easy OS, and be able to use it. According to my understanding of your post, you think that an easy OS is a minimal one, with basic functions and applications on it.
I disagree because I don’t see why those people coudn’t have unknown pre-installed applications with some explanations about it. They would learn that to replace youtube (if they used it of course) there is NewPipe already installed ; to send SMS securely there is Signal already installed ; etc. If /e/ doesn’t put everything in the hands of beginners, they will never or too late discover those apps because they will never spend hours on the internet searching new ways to prevent data leaking like expert users would do (in my case anyway 
).
Furthermore, I don’t see why an ads/trackers blocker couldn’t be by default for all users for instance. That would delete all ads without user action, wich would be nice for beginners.
As I said above, a detail explanation of every settings and apps is needed in order to inform beginners and spread the speech of the protection of private life. Videos would be perfect because it’s much more intuitive and pleasant to see. Really, let’s not underestimate beginners by keeping them uncultivated about privacy and new apps.
People that really really know nothing about technologie won’t install /e/ by themselves and somebody will guide them anyway. Only those concerned about their privacy will, and those people want to learn as much as they can about privacy protection so I really think all I said before would be better.
(I respond to you but I could have respond to other posts 
)
Open mind, just explain me why I’m wrong if I am
3 Likes
I agree on this above. I also would like to have the add blocker. I have it on my rooted /e/ phone. I replaced the /etc/hosts file with a file extracted from pi-hole, with over 100K lines in it. The add-blocker works with VPN enabled.
Hi @Anonyme in reply to your suggestion that /e/ should “put everything in the hands of beginners” I just took the position of older people who are the social group I most commonly meet and who I help when I can. They are open to the idea of using a system like /e/ as I said, but if you bombard them with too much information concerning surveillance and data gathering on the net and the plethora of tools/apps needed to counter it, they are often tempted to say it’s too much for them to take in and sometimes just shrug their shoulders and say it’s the drawback of progress and then leave it for others to sort out.
I agree that putting Signal in as a default app is a good idea as it’s easy to use and if their friends install it, so much the better - as my children and various friends have done when I explain it’s better than WhatsApp. Pre-configuring a safe browser to avoid trackers is also a good idea so long as the user has little more to do. An ad-blocker I also agree with, but it has to work with just a simple message to ask the user if he/she wants it or not. There are already more than twenty icons on the default screen of /e/ so I would be careful of putting many more, unless the user has a specific need. Youtube is a case in point. A message in the repository to advise replacing it with NewPipe would be sufficient in my opinion. You can’t expect ordinary users to be frequently seeking advice from those who know more as it may become burdensome and put people off. That is my experience when helping others at least.
3 Likes
@Grendel Hmm yes, so let’s split the difference/coupons la poire en deux :
After reflexion, two modes would be nice : a Normal mode and a Simplify mode (but absolutly not an Expert mode).
Actually I’m afraid that with an expert/normal/basic mode, “normal” people will choose normal mode because they think (wrongly) they aren’t good enough to choose the expert mode and I’m afraid they would miss some things, some alternative apps and so miss some privacy protections. Like I said, I want /e/ to “force” people discover new horizons, new apps, new knowledges.
With a Normal and Simplify modes only, expert and normal people would choose the Normal modes, with strict settings, some informations about settings and a lot of apps pre-installed (easily removeable of course), and the people with real difficulties with technology would choose the Simplify mode, with basics apps not to afraid them and no complicated explanations.
In conclusion, the James Bond mode should be the Normal mode in order not to let experts have a mode with all tools for themselves, but rather bring normal people at the upper level, without loosing “older people” with the Simplify mode 
I hope I made myself clear
2 Likes
Yes gr8 idea!!! 
I love this!
It is so good to automatically show the most private alternative!!
@GaelDuval Like many who have repliedi don’t see the real benefit of having “expert” mode - is it because some potential partners, eg handset vendors, have said they think it’s needed?
Yes, Signal. For sure.
Also, definitely need an explination of why privacy is so important!!
What adblocker are you using?
It’s not an add-blocker. I use the hosts file: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosts_(file) to provide add-services the wrong IP number. So i have converted the gravety list from pi-hole https://pi-hole.net/ . Here are a couple of lines from the hosts file:
#gravity list pihole to hosts
0.0.0.0 1493361689.rsc.cdn77.org
0.0.0.0 30-day-change.com
0.0.0.0 2468.go2cloud.org
0.0.0.0 adservice.google.nl
0.0.0.0 analytics.ff.avast.com
0.0.0.0 adsmws.cloudapp.net
0.0.0.0 androidads23.adcolony.com
0.0.0.0 analytics.publitas.com
The hosts file is queried first before any other DNS service, that’s why it also works with VPN enabled.
Any add-sevice will get the wrong IP address (0.0.0.0)(if exists the hosts file of course) and does not display. Only “issue” is you need root access to replace the hosts file.
This must be a new and not implemented feature, because I have just build a oreo version for my xiaomi capricorn and forexample I can’t remove bliss launcher or browser.
You are right @harvey186 this feature is still not there in the current /e/ code base.
It will be added soon along with some other features like having different types of profiles available as part of the installation - for which we are seeking suggestions here from users.
4 Likes
App store not good as name app market or something different for apps like menager etc…
How about App Warehouse or App HQ? That sounds pretty cool; like marking apps as ‘tools’ since we do use them as such for making our lives easier.
For me, the best wouldn’t be a choice of profile, but an assistant like in Windows, with “Previous” and “Next” buttons. All users know this system. For exemple:
Browser
* Bromite (default)
° Tor (security / privacy)
° No default browser
Next >
And next:
Mail
* K-9 (default)
° ProtonMail (security / privacy)
° No default mail app
< Previous Next >
Maybe add a color code to identify default and privacy options.
5 Likes
For expert users, yes it would be nice but for beginners in privacy (who don’t know about those applications) it’s confusing.
You will (maybe) answer me that they just have to let the default app checked and click “Next” each time. And I would reply that they can also just choose a “Normal mode” (ref. my previous post/comment to understant what I’m talking about) in which ALL apps would be pre-installed.
So rather than choosing the apps people want, people would delete the apps they don’t want. The advantage is that they would know that those apps exist, they would open them and try to use them. (If you let them the choice not to install apps they don’t know, they won’t install them, which is a pity)
I agree with this idea.
Users need a global overview of the capabilities of the system instead of, or before, digging in every app settings and trying to guess what it means.
The main problem users have to face is the lack of information on how to use a system or app and what means a setting. And this problem remains since the beginning of personal computing industry .
We can imagine a dashboard or a menu, like at the restaurant, where users could define a global setting and after let the system suggest, and explain, a set of apps and settings and then interactively refine the profile.
And thereafter for every app before installation control the app features according to the profile defined and alert the user.
So the system and the user could have a more interactive relation. The user expressing his needs and the system controlling the coherence of the choices made and suggesting solutions.
In my opinion two profiles should be defined and selectable at boot time, or after. One for personal use and one for corporate use. I think this feature will be appreciated by system administrators facing the BYOD problem.
2 Likes
I totally agree with what you suggest, I was about to write the same thing actually.
1 Like
So, the best should be:
-
Choice of a profile
-
According to the chosen profile, the “Previous - Next” assistant
1 Like