I liked your approach.
A tablet for Internet and a dumb phone for calls.
You gave me some ideas here 
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The threadstarter did ask how he could use a tracing app on /e/. He did not ask for advice if he should use such an app. Nevertheless he gets flooded with extremist political opinions and hatred against democratic governments. Those who abuse this forum to agitate and level up european governments with the chinese do not come forward with any facts in regard of any of the apps in question, presumably because the are not capable to do so.
The Chaos Computer Club, which is well qualified to give a opinion about those tracing apps, says that it can an should be done without violating the basic right of an individual.
Word for word he says âWir haben ja Möglichkeiten einfach mal was tun ohne direkt die Grundrechte zu attakieren und das sollte jetzt bei einer solchen App geschehen.â
/e/ says it wants to provide a mobile OS free of Google. If the foundation wants to be taken seriously, its about time that someone starts moderating this forum.
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Hello.
Well, /e/ want to provide an OS free of gg and then users want apps which need gg âservicesââŠ
In case of the french app, the government had chosen (it IS politic) a centralized network, against EUâs advice. Le Canard EnchaĂźnĂ© had already noticed several times that even french secret services donât be able to ensure their own security. But they illegally catch and compile dataâs and the CNIL commission has no power to stop or at least limit these driftsâŠ
In fact, (non-french) StopCovid needs you to use exclusively gg or apple and epidemiologists doubt about efficiency of such an app. It is legitimate to ask: âĂ qui profite le crime ?â (who benefits from crime?)âŠ
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Let me understand, so you use a privacy-respecting OS that doesnât collect data, and you want to install an app that as its sole purpose has to collect data, profile, and track (the alleged anonymity does not change its function). Iâm a little confused. Either you buy a phone with google, or you get vaccines, so youâre protected and you donât need the app anymore
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Even if it is called âImmuniesâ it does not immunize and does not protect anyone. Make the vaccine!!! Let me understand, so you use a privacy-respecting OS that doesnât collect data, and you want to install an app that as its sole purpose has to collect data, profile, and track (the alleged anonymity does not change its function). Iâm a little confused. Either you buy a phone with google, or you get vaccines, so youâre protected and you no longer need the app
Well, /e/ want to provide an OS free of gg and then users want apps which need gg âservicesââŠ
Strictly speaking, people want to use certain apps. Which need an API that in case of Android comes via update of the play services and in case of Apple with a system update.
Iâm aware it might sound like nitpicking, but the tracing apps donât actually need services (and communication with Google servers), they need some base functionality in order to work properly (like not being killed while in background and keeping bluetooth enabled reliably).
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I opened the thread since I thought it could just be a versioning issue of the microg package. I know that Marv-in, the developer of microg, is going through some bad time and cannot work on microg in this time, and I read somewhere that /e/OS developers do update their own microg fork, so I thought they could try to update their version to see if it could work.
Since itâs not like that it doesnât depend on /e/OS, is a matter of the framework that governments decide to use, so not even the app developers can do much about it, if not just advice governments to do things differently.
Anyway I agree with you. And Iâm so angry by this situation which clearly shows what could happen in the future, in similar situations. Governments need whatever IT solutions for their citizens and they must bend 90 degrees and bow down to whatever Apple and Google want. This is much worse than I actually thought, and this is why we must go on with our fight and support projects such as /e/OS.
This Exposure Notification API has been integrated in Google Play Services and Apples services so they have all possible control on that. While it could easily be implemented in any app as an individual API, framework or Chimera module.
Now, if anyone wants to use a different framework, they will not be able to communicate with the apps using A/Gâs one. Imagine, Apple even force you to update to a newer version of iOS, so if you have a slightly older version you cannot use the app. Thatâs just arbitrary, no technical reason at all behind that.
Finally I donât wanna get into the debate of wether such apps are useful or not, but I should be given the possibility to use it without necessarily relying on proprietary software. I just wanna remember to all of you that microg is already an open source hack that allows us to use many applications which rely on Googleâs Services. Whitout it /e/OS wouldnât have such a wide audience since, sadly, a huge number of apps we use daily need this freakinâ framework.
So, asking to implement another open source patch to microg to have the Exposure Notification API working on our phones, is nothing different than we all already have.
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Do you know this or is this wishful thinking?
From what I understood, Covid Apps for Apple would not be able to send out the bluetooth packets while running in the background because the iOS design prohibits this (probably for good reasons? battery consumption?).
All Apple did was opening up an API to allow for exceptions of the old behaviour. That plus a cooperation with Google to make sure the tracing would work across iOS and Android (while Apple usually keeps their users in a golden cage not easily left for other systems). You make it almost sound as if common standards/protocols were a bad thing in general.
How much help would it be that anyone could implement their - potentially incompatible - solutions on their own? Ultimately failing because the OS wouldnât let that happen (like Apps not being allowed to access the camera when permission is not granted, or not allowing Apps to read all data of all other Apps).
Well, both wishful thinking and some technical knowledge.
But Iâm not sure I understood what you meant.
First of all I make two different cases between Android and iOS. While Android has some degree of flexibility and part of it is Open Source, iOS is completely closed, so thereâs no way of controlling it.
You make it almost sound as if common standards/protocols were a bad thing in general.
Nono! All the opposite. Iâm just analysing the situation we have here. For what regards Google they could simply not wrap the API in Google Play Services, but distribute it in other ways that could make it available to most devices, whitout the need of the Services Framework.
While for what concern Apple, since they are completely closed source, I guess they could simply put some more effort and make the API available also for older versions of iOS.
Of course they have interest in doing it this way, but it should be our governments (and the EU) that should force them to follow different guidelines, they are the only entitled to do that and should have done that.
Then of course I am completely against this approach, from the point of view that a common open standard should have been developed to be used by any developer who wanted to develop such an app for whatever platform they wanted to. I thought the PEPPT-PT initiativeâs goal was exactly that, and thatâs what the European Commission is advising gonvernments to do. A Open Source, interoperable framework to be used cross-border by european citizens.
But now we have this shitty situation where the most compatible, cross device and cross platform framework is the A/G API, which is going to be the most widely used, but keeps people who either doesnât have Google Play Services or an updated version of iOS out. While the ones who try to develop one that could work without the limitations decided by A/G, are locked out from communicating with the A/G API.
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Thanks carallo for clearing that up, now I understand better what you mean. I have to admit I still need to look into exactly what the Exposure Notification API does. From my current knowledge at least some changes were necessary in the OS to make whatever solution work reliably (having to constantly run Covid Apps in the foreground is something I guess is not very practical). So there was no way to completely leave Apple and Google out. But sure, A/G might have done more than strictly necessary which could have been left for others to design/implement.
Yes, I agree with you. Writing from home while not actually being involved in the developing process is always easier.
Unfortunatly Appleâs and Googleâs reputation for what concerns the respect of their users is not great (being sarcastic). Thatâs what brings me, and most of us, being very skeptical in these cases. And I get especially mad when it is a case of health and national interest.
I always think that you must earn the trust of the others.
If Google had always been very transparent and respectful I would more easily believe that this was actually the best and fastest way to implement such a protocol. So they should only blame themselves if no one trusts them anymore.
The same goes for Apple of course. If you are known to push updates to your functioning devices and make them then sluggish, always trying to put barriers so people with old software cannot download new apps, not permitting downgranding of your software and so on⊠how can I believe that the need of a specific new version of your OS is strictly needed to âsave human livesâ, from a technological point of view, and they are not simply using peopleâs scare of the virus to push even more their programmed obsolescence policies?
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Thoses apps will not work as they need to be installaled and used on more than 60% of the people phones. As south Corea talled, the digital surveillance could not impeached a new wave of contamination,that is juste a new test to control the people. And stop covid is not anonimized. It ask you if you are real human with a capchat. Some JavaScript app that create a finrgerprint with your browser parameters and can identify you. Whatch all parameter by yourself (http://amiunique.org/FP )
The best way to protect your family is to wash your hand.
Citacion.
La Commission Ă©met toutefois de nouvelles recommandations pour rehausser encore le niveau de sĂ©curitĂ©, notamment sur les entitĂ©s qui se verront confier les fragments des clĂ©s, sur les modalitĂ©s dâauthentification des individus habilitĂ©s Ă accĂ©der aux donnĂ©es enregistrĂ©es sur le serveur central ou encore sur lâusage dâun captcha lors de lâinitialisation de lâapplication. Ce captcha sera assurĂ© par un service tiers qui se trouve hors de lâUnion europĂ©enne ; la CNIL souhaite une solution maison.
Sourcehttps://www.numerama.com/tech/626333-stopcovid-la-cnil-valide-lapplication-meme-si-son-efficacite-sanitaire-reste-incertaine.html?cf_chl_captcha_tk=f542bf15d28eac076eef85850ae1f834bfada664-1591532843-0-Ac_6_3N1zw77oEco9Bpd6KLh3yCYtmJxUC4LB0v58si5Lndp09TFbIj5W0JSr2T0kbgmca60vy6Pp4RcNeT1wDZL7zAWNLAM8_4Tx_lTRQt6kX-O6xEMhv9xK4sg1yBv8nKrWGFU_aAS9b8RVBS70CGG1seGywjmIw87kVI1Fy5gUhAfg9hbxgUDASPvX8vLdhMo2dsj1tksEvow7FzcOrA3xvbbaSZUyTvD5FVgclB3hHfLb-hKMxkLEX4brwEekIkuN3Iq0R330x3S-yXw16QDDQ5jphviIS4nLrljiZ7e8u8hIlaGZdGLVBtMM0TSNYL-39iv2yACENZHofF6GZwAZvzXctppkhMDbSAJORg7wq0lLk0tnFP70Q54_TaawOt8HPR_k-Zd08rnhG8IYWUxfFk_aJ5q102J54afTJ-_orXELVlowVsbxo2yG4YwHi50EMW-hm8wndfg01q3jV6LKk2WxNSYs0eMysKsX8YynBK60Cu21BeQhD_AcfkD9GAfMJoCpMWX_DEVZtvM4QaVx2tWd0nz48Hbpp5B_JmSdmUFEVa0mjGvUsSlNI5c64fZvP-C8HnDof_qpLXjnGhxtfdfAWcnEoWB90E42zH4hzBChqluDAaUsSifkPMZNMjMrl2eKMInCpRgZfqaAn4
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I do not think itâs possible nor do I think the core foundation for the creation of /e/ would want a tracking app like that. Hopefully microG will never implement any part of that. To be honest you might want to replace /e/ with lineage and put the full Google apps store on it. It should work after you do that.
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What google/apple implemented isnât even an app, itâs an API, which does NOTHING without an app using it.
Even if you are against this, even if it would make its way into microG, NOTHING CHANGES EXCEPT YOU INSTALL one of the tracing apps.
Secondly, the type of tracing we are talking about isnât tracking. If we want to go there, we shouldnât use phones at all.
An app is a tool, smart usage will help, dumb usage will not.
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An api ask for data and return datas the answer which datas ? if that data is owned by a trusted entity at your eyes you should go in.
Neither phones, neither internet, should be used in some particular cases.
A mobile with no tracker can be tracked by the national ISP if conected to the mobile network, the other problem is that stopcovid permits that foreigner track french peoples.
Giving whatever seeds to mass surveillance will feed mass surveillance, which will not give you back the food or their fruits, just because itâs not working in this case.
The API returns a pseudonymous token which changes frequently and is used to find matches with people you were in a somewhat close distance with. The tokens get saved for a while, locally.
If an infected person now uploads their positive - with the app the user had to install themselves - everyone who got any of their tokens STILL SAVED gets notified.
THATS IT.
Itâs not even close to tracking or surveillance.
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I was already following /e/ for quite a long time, but hearing about the new Google/Apple framework API being implemented so quickly in android phones and all this covid tracking apps was kind of the spark that made me buy the /e/ FP3, precisely in order to avoid this kind of tracking technology. Wouldnt like to see it in /e/ in the future (of course im speaking from a country where its not mandatory to have this app. I think that is a topic for another discussion)
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You should be proud to have an operating system where this crap doesnât work, where they canât track you.
An app wonât help you with Corona, the only thing that helps is (if you believe in Corona at all!!!) keeping your distance, washing your hands, done.
If you want to be followed unconditionally, just use another ROM where the evilGoogle services are all installed. Done.
/e/ Android is supposed to protect your data, but it canât do it when such bullshit is installed.
Personally I donât think much of the Corona and I donât go to restaurants, but if I should go there for any reason, I would give a wrong address. As soon as it would become mandatory to use such an app, I would not use a mobile phone anymore.
An app doesnât protect, washing your hands does.
An installed api can also be a gateway for other things. So itâs ok that /e/ Android doesnât install this crap.
Now I had to turn on the laptop to answer here, thatâs how upset I am⊠But now itâs time to go to work, Iâm already lateâŠ
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If you believe in it⊠Yeah, your input does not matter.
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Today the official tracing (not tacking!) App for Germany got a soft release. It does not work on EOS. There should be a workaround, the private enough for me to use it.