Legitimacy to apply the advanced privacy feature on applications installed by default

Hello to the /e/team and /e/world.
I’ve actually some thoughts about the advanced privacy feature especially around the default apps.

To introduce my point of view, we know that the /e/ foundation and all the developers and teams have for aims that the system is respectful on the user privacy as much as possible.
That’s why the system on its virgin state has nothing to exchange about the user data.
No google services, instead of this is microG in place.
No google cloud, but an own one which is more discreet. And apps per default installed which are are carefully selected in this way (privacy).
Thus I ask me if it makes really sense that the advanced privacy feature have a look on them especially for the trackers, spend system resource on it, if they are really clean.
Why the trackers are set active per default on them ? I suppose that we could spare some resources by deactivate some functions of this feature which might be useless for it.

I think that’s not a problem if there are not so much app which are installed.
The overview is still quite good, and we may deactivate it by our-self.
But I remarked that after an high amount of apps, than the autonomy may goes drastic under, and the advanced privacy feature, the system itself and the “inactive phone” spend a lot’s of battery resource.
And in some case it’s a little complicated to recognize the default app, and one after one change the advanced privacy feature on it.

I would like in my case that the privacy feature are per default deactivated on this well known apps careful selected from /e/team. And maybe a function button to activate it & deactivate it on demand (if it make sense, otherwise not).

What do you think about it ? Interesting ? would be a point to debate ?
Just for curiosity (not a must because of privacy :wink: lol ) how many apps do you have ? how hard it sucks the battery ? (means how is the autonomy more or less)
In my case I have currently 105 :scream: must now clean up again. And I remark that every time that I’m above the 100 amount, than the autonomy is shorter than a day… it’s just an observation, not a fact…

Have a nice time all.

Regain your privacy! Adopt /e/ the unGoogled mobile OS and online servicesphone

If the Apps have the capability to show web content, the trackers in the web content get associated with the App, example … Magic Earth with tracker?.
The Apps naturally can’t do anything about trackers in this web content themselves … but Advanced Privacy apparently can, and it’s good that this is enabled by default.

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…interesting question with regards to AP, maybe someone can tell from how the service is designed (?)
I use AP only for blocking trackers and I don´t do in-depth monitoring of app´s power consumption but I check from time to time in systemsettingsbattery → 3-dot-menu.
It never appeared to me that AP was amongst those apps with high consumption (can´t even tell if it was listed at all…).
My non-expert assumption is that it should not matter much whether tracking is active for only 10 or for 60 apps but it should matter whether trackers blocker is active or not (?)

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good point and interesting for this app or application.
Thanks for pointing on it.

but how do you think about the mail, message, call, notes, contacts ?

And what is about camera, explorer, keyboard, gallery, clock, recorder, calculator, music, agenda, tasks which eventually (i supposed) are under the “application system”

Are they really with trackers? what would be the purpose of it?

I would await for a team who is strong on privacy care oriented, that they provides and guaranty the default apps as tracker free in exception of the web-browser and the mapping apps.

for me was the same case as long as I was under an amount of 100 more or less.
Like try a lots of things.
But since a couple of time or months. then I come on a clear difference of autonomy, and the battery diagnostic display on top “phone inactive” “android system” and “advanced privacy”.
If i’m cleaning on unused map, then it’s acceptable again.

But want to tinker on AP side… Try to find app alternative with less tracker, and maybe deactivate app which are surely without trackers. And I expect that a bunch of default apps should be tracker free and don’t need AP…

As I told, it’s not based on fact, but on supposition. And if I’m thinking further, why shall the AP track on apps per default by a system which care on privacy, and the app has no usage of tracker like a calculator or phone-call one ?
Thinking about system optimization.

Ideally would be a topic where a list of tracker free apps are regularly updated here on forum, and verified (if it’s not too disproportionate) …

I used Magic Earth as an example here because the recent topic about it shows how the connection to Advanced Privacy and trackers came to be. It should work the same for other Apps, I see no reason to believe otherwise.

As is visible using the example of Magic Earth, trackers may be in web content which gets opened within the context of the Apps and thus the trackers are being associated with the Apps while the Apps themselves don’t have trackers but can’t control what awaits in the web.

And this makes applying Advanced Privacy to default /e/OS Apps legitimate.

Magic Earth itself doesn’t have trackers, as was pointed out in the topic I linked to.

Have you already tried to deactivate blocking in AP trackers blocker for those apps that do not show trackers anyways (least in your usecase - see magic earth example) and did that change battery consumption?

I get your point - yet still I think it is a good aproach to apply overall-coverage for AP trackers blocker and leave whitelisting of apps to the user.
…least for the time being. That might change in the not so likely situation of having abundancy in dev-ressources.

magic earth has more advanced funtionality which like you’ve pointed are reality augmented. if the phone call app or message app may have similar functionalities, that’s for me quite gadgets.
mail solve it by openning the internet links by a call to the default browser. mail don’t have, and don’t need it. then AP has not find there… that’s for me the example of an other which is the contrary of yours.
I think magic earth is a exception, then an other like web browser is the next one as exception, the others shall be clean with my understanding

yes I did, it’s a little bit trickky to retrieve it under the bunch of existing apps.
But to deactivate seems that the app do it, if it takes effect, i don’t know, I must believe on it.
but I couldn’t apply it on all apps, by some of them they are apparently gathered in the “system application”.
That’s the next point, in /e/ OS that’s not clear to see on the device where are each default app nested.
And if we could start each of them, we should be able to find it in the AP tracker blocker, and IP-control clearly separately with dedicated option active or not or not settable.
The system /e/OS wish to be clear too, but here in AP from structure something is wrong, not clear definitively.
I have a wish for the both functionalities of the AP, that the default apps are at last all present in the list and have a kind of marking that they are recognizable as the default apps, for being easily retrieved too.
user understanding augmented…
small things but usefull I think

Mail doesn’t even need to open internet links to deserve strict configuration or a watchful eye. Most email nowadays is sent and displayed as HTML, which can easily try to load stuff from the web without having the user click/tap a link.

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This is only applying to people who accept HTML-mails.
As I use GPG I avoid this.
The only known way to break it so far is by displaying the original HTML as shown here.

I can watch the HTML-version later when it is safe to do so, but rarely do.

Which /e/OS users are not, using the default Mail App in its default configuration?

On your /e/OS phone with the default Mail App?

No, I do not use mail on the phone at all.
I find it disgusting to fiddle with that rat piano.
For me messengers are ok, but not mail.

Then, IF I would encounter the necessity to use mail on the phone I would probably use Proton Mail.

That’s fine, of course, but the default /e/OS Apps are what this conversation here is about.

How does this distinction hold up in case of mail with the UI of a messenger? :slight_smile:https://delta.chat/en/

Well, yes, I forgot the topic.

On the PC I use Thunderbird 115.3.1 (64-Bit), and there is also a chat functionality which I regret to use.
Messengers (Signal, Matrix, Threema) to me are are more comfy SMS, if a reduced content is given.

At the end it seems that the borderlines are fluent as I can use a messenger on the desktop and mail on the phone.
When I started mail, I had a 286 pc with DOS 6.22 and CrossPoint 3.11. Back then it was clearly distinguishable from fax, the other available electronical document transport opportunity.

:+1: :smiley: Nice gui for having short discussions with friends.
but if you have many exchanges with professionals about howtos, description of requested stufs, manuals, this “overview” gui gets fast unpractical for me.
Last time I had to have many exchanges with lawyers, assurances, shower cabin firm, epoxy professional, with many iterations and a bunch of details. I would be mad with such a view with all the things to read.
But that’s appart f the topic, but interesting for having a short look on it

why proton mail what do you have to hide ?
I’m not sure that it interest someone the kind of discussion a casual people, with friends or small business ?
for home business we don’t have the choice to use something else as the mail.
At works, the boss. ceo shall have a look to have the point to point security.
For the friends, you have already messengers. but the traditional mail, make the job. If the maintainer is clean and not business oriented, then you should have a clean app.
Am not really skilled in security, but I tell me Where should be the tracker, the leak ?
And ok, I agree if we are not sure, then let the tracker-tracker active…

Wrong question.

If I go to the bathroom, I close the door.
If I send a letter, I put it in an envelope.
Encrytion is the “envelope” for my mail, which without it was a text, readable by everybody.

I don’t want to be a public person, even if my personal business might not be interesting to anybody.
I want it to be private.
So far encryption can assure that.

Snowden said: “Arguing that you don’t care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.”
Please see the discussion on the “Nothing-to-hide-argument”.

Anyway, we should end this here or open a new topic.

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because none of us could stay on the topic ?
did your answer any points on the topic tracker?
I agree all things in discussion are interesting, but you never talk something above the topic.
interesting point of view instead…
then please stay on topic

Hello /e/ people any other else want to have his thinking on the topic ?
make it sense that the system spent ressource on sms app and other default apps?