Murena for phones under Android... Which solution for PCs under Windows?

Dear Community,

as cofounder of Repair Café Marseille, and former president of Repair Café France, I have been involved in the repair ecosystem in France for a while.

As recently announced by the Repair Café International foundation (located in Amsterdam) many Repair Café Linux will be organised in the coming months, in particular to help people move away from MS Windows 10. I also mentioned Murena to the foundation.

I see a parallel situation between smartphones under Android and laptop PC under Windows: they seriously need a migration towards a better OS, with user sovereignty in mind. You are doing a great job with /e/OS and Murena. But which alternative would you recommend for laptops?

I have heard about Zorin OS (based on Ubuntu Linux) a few times recently. Would you consider it as a “default” for helping the PC mass market move to Linux? Since I am based in Europe, I would prefer a solution that is developed by or for Europeans.

Thanks in advance for your attention.
Best regards,

David.

4 Likes

Hello @davidbourguignon

I am not Murena just a user. If you want european Linux then Mint would be a good and also popular Distro.

If you also want to reduce relying on Ubuntu there is also a Debian variant for Mint.

3 Likes

Hello @davidbourguignon, Welcome to the /e/ users forum.

.

For users used to use Windows, i think the easiest user interface to use is KDE…
Lol …for the abusive use of use… (although i personally like MATE)

.

for your android install party, you may find usefull :
.
[HOWTO] an Unified Install Guide Project for /e/
.
[HOWTO] a Clear Guide to install "IMG-e-builds" when /e/ web installer fails
.
[HOWTO] Upgrade my /e/OS to major Android version without loosing /data

1 Like

Several mugglers in my family has successfully been coerced to Kubuntu, but Zorin has gotten a lot of buzz lately :person_shrugging:

1 Like

Should you somehow need to stay on Windows 10 or 11, but you want at least to regain a part of your privacy, you should definitely download (freeware) O&O ShutUp (by a German developer). This lets you set almost ALL privacy-settlings on Windows.

3 Likes

Hi everybody,

Did you see this distro https://eu-os.eu/ ?

3 Likes

I was just about to suggest Zorin, when you mentioned it. It particularly targets ex-Windows users, and version 18 is just out. I use it on an old 2-in-1 because it performs well with a touch screen.

If you want to convince people to switch, make sure they don’t have to use the terminal, partition the disk etc. Most people don’t want to use a screw driver to make their washing machine do its job, and the same applies to computers.

4 Likes

it is mandatory to install “Dual-Boot” properly and don’t loose access to Windows
(often still needed to configure or use some mainstream accessories)
be carefull with the Windows and “Vendor” recovery partitions…

1 Like

Many people don’t have a problem to backup their files (for example to a cloud) and then wipe their disk during installation. One advantage is that they can take their computer home and don’t have to bother later with deleting the Windows partition to free up the space, where they probably would need help again.

1 Like

Hi @davidbourguignon ; welcome to the /e/ Community!

So…to directly answer your question, Zorin is pretty good, and Linux Mint is also pretty good; GalliumOS might be worth a look for Chromebooks; it’s optimized for them and keeps the F-Key functionality intact, most notably.

That being said…it sounds like you’re “in the trenches” and have experience specifically with this sort of work, but I’d submit that there is, at least in my opinion, a fundamental difference between the Android->/e/OS migration and the Windows->Linux migration: everything else.

Amongst the reasons I use /e/OS, instead of PostMarketOS or UbuntuTouch, is because a huge amount of /e/OS’s development time goes into making the shift from Google to Murena as smooth as possible. A handful of Android apps don’t work, but well over 99% of them do. Apps come from the App Lounge and/or Aurora, which is pretty much a drop-in replacement for the Play Store (with less spam as a bonus).

While some users don’t really need Windows because they do pretty much everything in a browser, I submit that a good number of them have already moved to a Mac or a Chromebook or just doing everything on their phone. Some more of them may be fine using LibreOffice, or may need one or two other programs for which there are drop-in replacements, but there are a good number of Windows users who are still using Windows, intentionally, because of the long-tail of applications available for the platform. Yes, the “Word and the Internet” crowd would probably be fine with LibrOffice on Zorin, but there are a whole lot of musicians for whom Ableton is a must-have. iPhone users don’t have the sort of device backup and management functions available to them on iTunes or iMazing.

This isn’t an argument against moving people away from Windows, but it is an argument that there are intermediate steps. /e/OS is an easy move away from Android because it is Android, with great care to make sure that if someone wants Android-but-without-Google, the only thing they’re giving up is the Google. Neither Zorin nor Mint nor Ubuntu nor Oracle Linux are going to give users the same ability to keep their existing software library and workflows and limit their replacement to the OS. Now again, for some people with very limited workflows, it’d be super easy to move them to Zorin, and the fact that your shop exists is proof that it can be done. However, I would submit that it is well worth assessing a users’ needs before causing a support headache that may not be possible to migrate.

Hope it helps!

3 Likes

Re Linux for Windows Users, one of the difficulties is “future issues”. At a repair cafe, you can set a laptop or computer perfectly for someone but, it is worrying to think that a future OS update could cause an important component such as the WiFi card, or the sound card to stop working. And the person you helped might then have no choice but, to try to fix it themselves and have no idea how to do it. So, the best distros to migrate people to are not necessarily the easiest to use but, the most stable / reliable and well supported ones

I have migrated about 20 people from Windows to Linux in the last 5 years - different distros. My favourites for new users / ex windows users, are Ubuntu LTS (the previous version to the newest one, if the newest release is very recent, to allow for time for issues to have been fixed. Linux Mint is also a good option. I use Mint LMDE myself but, Cinnamon is probably better for new users. Recently, I migrated someone (a windows user of many years) to Zorin and she is very happy with it. The Zorin interface is really user friendly and appealing. The built-in software catalog is not as extensive as other distros but, new users are less likely to add new software if they have everything that they need at the start. I would not migrate an ex-windows user to a less well known distro with a smaller user base, that may become “abandonware” at a later date.

It is important that new Linux converts from Windows understand that, in general, Windows software may not work on Linux. Popular windows software such as Microsoft Office will work well under Wine but, not necessarily the newest subscription versions.

In migrating people to Linux, I have always tried to ensure that they have all the software (or comparable software) that they used with Windows. If possible. It can be a good idea to set up printers / scanners for them as well although the well known brands of printers / AIO’s are much better supported they used to be. At one time, only HP printers worked reliably on Linux.

I hope this helps.

5 Likes

I use a Win 10 IoT version with support until 2032. It is a bare bones version of Win 10, is smaller (lighter).

@Infinity thanks for the O&O ShutUP tip, I have been doing most of this manually. Some people come to me to install Windows 11 (dread), I will be sure to install this tool on any installation going forward. I will probably donate to the author of the software.

2 Likes

Following this thread closely. I got a perfectly fine Lenovo laptop that’s just a tad bit too weak for Windows 11 and I completely refuse to spend several hundred € just because MS doesn’t want to support Win 10 anymore. I really would like to migrate, but…

  1. MS Teams and the entire Office 365 package has to run on it since I need that for work (the online versions via browser are not an option at all)
  2. Distros like Ubuntu offer me way more options than I acutally want (and sometimes understand). And I’d really prefer to avoid command-line installations or terminal-based setups at all.

This is based on some rudimentary Linux experience: I use a really old Samsung N455 (or something) with Lubuntu as a music player in my hobby room. But even that is a bit too much for my taste - it’s not connected to WiFi or anything else, basically it’s an mp3 player using an AUX connection to an AV receiver… Years back a relative gave it to me for free because the hd was broken so I installed a cheap ssd and opted to go with Lubuntu as an OS. It was too good to throw away and has a much better pre-amp than any cheap mp3 player so…

It’s not that I’m completely overwhelmed by the Linux functionality and the millions of options. It’s just “too much” for my taste if you know what I mean.

1 Like

Hi

Zorin is the best “alternative” to Windows. Zorin 18 is quite new and seems a bit rushed (reading their forums) and so a bit rough. I would go for Zorin 17 core and then upgrade later (early next year).

I’ve put Zorin on my wife’s laptop 8 years ago (she had 0 experience with Linux) and after many initial complaints (mostly for programs that were not available), now I don’t think she would ever choose ANY Windows if given the choice.

I’m using Zorin 17 Core on my main personal laptop and Bodhi Linux on others. I’ve used quite a few distros during the years but Zorin is the friendliest distro for Windows converts.

Windows is more and more crappy; I only use it at work where I have to.

Good luck!

LE. Here’s a recent review by distrowatch if you have not seen it: DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD.

4 Likes

Dear all,
you rock :slight_smile:

Thanks thousand times for your feedback, please keep sharing! Your advice, comments, philosophical musings, lessons learned and warnings are precious gems that I will archive. I will provide you with an overview of my current roadmap and next steps in a few weeks, before the topic is closed automatically.

Thanks again!
We are unstoppable :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Windows 10 IoT Enterprise releases follow the Modern Lifecycle Policy where each release is supported for 30-months and each feature update resets the support lifecycle.

(All dates are listed in ISO 8601 format: YYYY-MM-DD)

Product Start Date Retirement Date
Windows 10 IoT Enterprise :::no-loc text=“2015‑07‑29”::: :::no-loc text=“2025‑10‑14”:::

Source : github.com/MicrosoftDocs

1 Like

I’ve setup Linux Mint for a neighbor that knows nothing about technology.

He used the PC without any issues for a year until he broke the charging port.

I see that many people are recommending Zorin. I haven’t tested it myself. If I were you, I’d test Linux Mint and Zorin for a few users and see how things go. Some of these would probably like to do gaming too. Find the one that is the most user friendly from the beginning.

1 Like

From the variety of replies … I wonder if that is the best presentation / “question_answered” for “visitors” or “clients”?

It is difficult to tell what it would take any one individual to jump ship from the “normal”.

I would be inclined to think along the lines of a questionnaire of what visitors might seek to improve. Can people taste the alternatives first, will it cost a lot? Do I have to “just change”? (Seems these might be the sort of questions people might ask if considering installation of a home heat pump, or entering psychotherapy.)

Seems to me that a Repair Cafe environment is great for demonstrating lower cost alternatives without a complete overhaul of way of life … but it is still “what can I show you … and … what would you like to be different?” … asked of the visitor.

Oh, and I like my Debian unadulterated … but went through a #! learning curve.

3 Likes

@Didou Correction: Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-iot-enterprise-ltsc-2021

2 Likes

Furthermore all my PC’s and laptops are dual boot Linux Ubuntu and Windows 10 LTSC 2021. This way I only ever run windows when completely necessary. In most cases they are also dual drive with M.2 and SATA. One laptop is dual boot M.2 with Windows 11 and Linux Ubuntu on the same drive. The only reason I run windows 11 is the laptop is very new and I doubt I could find all windows 10 drivers for it (I could probably use the Windows 11 drivers).

But with the tool @Infinity mentioned the Windows 11 may become more bearable.

2 Likes